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Why do people still buy from Games Workshop? (Title copied)

Discussion in 'General Hobby/Tabletop Chat' started by Rikard, Jul 27, 2021.

  1. Rikard
    Stegadon

    Rikard Well-Known Member

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    Please forgive the title, I've copy & pasted it from Reddit.

    I've inlcuded the Twitter posts from James M Hewitt and his clearer horrendous time at Gamesworkshop, while terrible to read I'm relieved more than ever I told them no.

    This is something that needs to changed big time, companies that ask for you to give your all for, promises, pathetic pay and less should be named and shamed.

    I've also included Sophie Williams Twitter story link just below:
    https://twitter.com/sophisaurus_rex/status/1419981608489213954

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    I'm not surprised, GW have been all about the profit ever since they started escalating the prices of unit boxes and character models to the crazy levels they are now, if not before that. But it's not just them, it's modern business as a whole that's greedy, stingy and selfish. I've seen this time after time in the past couple of years with my job-hunting since graduation, where companies have been taking far more experienced people for jobs intended to be for graduates, with graduate pay, and telling me, once having rejected me, that they're looking for someone who should be able to 'hit the ground running'. How in the Gods' names can I do that if nobody will give me a chance to gain more experience in a business environment in the first place?

    With regards to buying GW models, I simply like the worlds they've created and want to add to my collection of miniatures from those worlds. If GW goes down or at least discontinues armies, there's no guarantee that I'll be able to get what I want - look at Tomb Kings, it's been 5 years now since GW deleted them and not a single company has risen up to take over, for fear of incurring a Cease and Desist order from GeeDubs. Mantic started to try it made a half-hearted attempt at it and are now obsessed with making Skaven, Lizardmen and Halflings, the former two of which already have popular GW ranges and the latter no half-serious fantasy wargamer cares about (particularly with the Steampunk aesthetic and dog cavalry the Mantic range will have). I also like to buy stuff in-store wherever possible rather than online, and GW gives me an opportunity to do that in their Hobby Centres (though a lot of the time I buy from independent stockists instead, so they can get at least something from the purchase, because they sometimes sell second-hand Fantasy stuff that I can put to good use and because they often give a discount).

    However, I am avoiding their most recent models, mostly because they're for armies I dislike (Vampire Counts, Slaanesh) but the rest of the time because their new box set prices are catching up fast with Forge World's (Lumineth for example - some of their models are pretty darn good but the prices of them are horrendous).
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
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  3. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    My honest answer is: I like their models and books and in most cases they are worth their price for me.

    I have some from Mantic and Reaper but the GW stuff - while annoyingly but not prohibitively expensive - is VERY good. In most cases way better than everything else I can afford.

    EDIT: I also played in the GW store (no other hobby place in my city) and considered going to tournaments and only GW minis are allowed there.

    As for their company policies... well... I didn't know until now and it might influence my future purchases, but... most big companies do crap like that. I cannot boycott everyone who does it. The people working there have to do something, especially if what the company is doing is not illegal.
     
  4. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    I think the more pertinent question is "why do people still choose to work for Games Workshop?". My decision to buy from GW is not influenced at all by their employment policies/salaries/etc. In general, I'd wager that a company's employment practices has very little influence on the purchasing habits of most consumers.

    I buy from GW because they produce the very best miniatures and I'm invested in the WFB world.
     
  5. Rikard
    Stegadon

    Rikard Well-Known Member

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    I'll get to replying to all of you shortly, I've tweaked the title to try and show I've simply copied it from the Reddit thread.

    As for my own thoughts (which I should have put in my initial post).

    I don't think a boycott is the answer, they're not like nestle;

    I think it's rare to find a a miniature sculptor out there who wasn't inspired, grew up with, or in some way prompted by Gamesworkshop in their life. They have a long history and global sphere of influence. I'd be a terrible hypocrite if I said that they weren't the reason I started sculpting (or rather, the people they employ/employed were). There is a level of passion amongst many of the individuals past and present, who went above and beyond for nothing more than the love of the hobby and an envyable desire to help and inspire others.

    The problem comes in the form of Gamesworkshop seeming to be under impression that the hobby community owes them, rather than the other way round, a business, no matter how well run, will never succeed if people don't use it. During my brief dabble with them this impression of "owing them" was a constant (Still waiting on that non-existant £1 for £3000-£4000 worth of sculpts Mr Gamesworkshop, I charge upfront, no matter how much invaluable feedback you offer).

    Still amazes me that TooSoone was so perplexed as to why he can't find sculptors, or get them to stay.


    FYI: Kevin Rountree's salary is £667K per annum.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
  6. The Red Devil
    Stegadon

    The Red Devil Defender of Hexoatl Staff Member

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    While I am not finding this too surprising considering how GW have operated.

    It is still strange from a business side, as they are cannibalizing their best resource, their staff.
    In the big picture, losing a good employee over 1000 pounds a year is not a good business decision.

    Though I guess this can explain the varying quality of their game rules as of the last few years.
     
  7. Kilvakar
    Carnasaur

    Kilvakar Well-Known Member

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    I only got into actually buying the minis and playing on the tabletop in the last few years, but I was definitely shocked by the pricing.$30-$50 for a single, two-inch tall character model? Are you kidding me? That's why I ended up buying everything on Ebay or miniature marketplace sites like thetrolltrader.

    The only products I purchased directly from GW have been the new Lord Kroak model and some paints. Especially now with all the stuff coming out about GW's poor treatment of employees, as well as their lockdown of fan work to try and force people to subscribe to Warhammer+, I definitely won't purchase anything from them directly unless and until things change.

    Doesn't mean I dislike the hobby itself, I intend to keep playing and enjoying the setting, but I'll get anything I need from 2nd-hand sources or 3D printing.
     
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  8. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Not saying that he "deserves" that much, but from a share holder's point of view, it was a worthwhile investment. Before Rountree, AoS was circling the drain; its sales figures were horrible. Now AoS is a huge seller and much more lucrative than just about any wargame not named 40k. GW's profit margin and share value have increased dramatically under the tenure of Rountree. He brought the company into the 21st century and investors of the company have benefited greatly from his hire.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
  9. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Yep, i tend to agree.
     
  10. Rikard
    Stegadon

    Rikard Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully I've included everyone, I'll check to make sure.

    You have my most sincere apologies, I know EXACTLY how that feels, I got my Uni Degree in 2005, but retrained as an Electrician, I simply could not get any work related to it, even from contacts I had made and volunteer work I did during my degree. The best response I would get would be "You have tons of promise, contacts us in a few years when you have some experience".

    I think the GW only models is understandable, but I do not agree with it as an absolute (for example for use in GW stores). I've seen some small scale tournaments where a 40K Nurgle player used his own kit-bashed vehicles, including a Rhino that was made from a 6pack egg box, covered in mountains of PVA glue and immersed in Devlan Mud. That to my mind is not creative, it's lazy and cheap, especially as all his other vehicles were done in a similar way, it also made it very difficult to tell what was what.

    I could play devil's advocate here and say, well what if the player sculpted the majority of his army from scratch?

    If I had sculpted enough units just for a 2000 point game, it kind of defeats the point, the amount of time it takes would mean I could have worked even a minimum wage job and easily brought 20,000 points of models.

    I agree, that's the real question here. I think in the very early days (and having met people that worked there back then), people would work 60+ hour weeks without being asked, or it being expected of them and for no other reason than, they loved working there, they loved what they were doing. The danger comes when some bigwig looks at this and instead of seeing it for the gift it is, they decided that this attitude should be expected of everyone. Something that isn't healthy or realistic if you find yourself in a situation where you have a family to support.

    Yes, especially from the little I picked up from my last encounter with them when the interviewer expressed both a difficulty in finding and retaining creative staff. I've noticed a lot of serious talent vanish from GW in recent years. Aragorn Marks and Edgar Skomorowski are two that spring to mind. They weren't snatched up by another company for a bigger, better wage, but both have gone solo.

    From speaking with independent sculptors and other companies during that same time period I quickly picked up the feeling that many professional mini sculptors wouldn't even entertain the idea of working for GW.

    Me neither, I haven't followed or touched AOS to be honest, the whole mess (how it was handled, including the rather poor fluff) of the Old World getting squatted kind of put me off. Not from sculpting, but everything just felt a bit hollow.

    Agreed, a CEO would be expected to pull in a healthy salary, but when actual game developers get paid less than a store manager, something is definitely not right. Based off some info I was told by a GW painter in 2012 (assuming the figure is accurate), a GW sculptor's salary is £18000 starting, with no raise for the first 2 years as you would be considered a "Trainee". GW can't exactly claim minimal profit margins, so why can't they afford to pay their staff an appropriate way to the accordingly level.
     
  11. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    i have not bought anything from GW in 19 months. i do not plan on buying anything from them anytime soon
     
  12. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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  13. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    i don't think box sets are a good indicator for that sort of thing. GW has always made very few boxes to promote scarcity it doesn't take much to have them sell out.
     
  14. Realjuan
    Cold One

    Realjuan Well-Known Member

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    I would prefer a shorter video, but the idea is correct. If you bring other games to the attention of other gamers, that matters more if you dont buy a box that is sold out anyway.
     
  15. Rikard
    Stegadon

    Rikard Well-Known Member

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    @KillerAngel.

    She makes some very solid points, I remember Boycotts from years ago (Warseer) and even a Buycott of sister's of battle models to encourage GW to release a Sister's update. I dislike the GW stance of "Our store, our models only" as it does put people off and ultimately,helps no-one, tournaments I'd argue are another thing entirely, primarily because of the advertising.

    As for Nestle, I'm not sure if Boycott is what you could call it, as I decided long ago never to buy their products (given their stellar humanitarian practices), so I'll actively check anything I buy for their branding and if it's a Nestle product I won't buy it. I don't actively promote not buying or using their products as people typically would for a Boycott, I simple don't use any of their products at all.

    B.O.T (Back on topic)

    I agree with pouring energy into other companies, Reaper minis is a huge company, but even so I've nothing but respect for them, they're open mind, friendly, helpful, they go above and beyond to foster the hobby AND the players, even if they're not actively playing Reaper games.
     
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  16. Just A Skink
    Skink Chief

    Just A Skink Well-Known Member

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    A good friend of mine got several of us back into GW when Underworlds started. The first taste is free, ha ha. Now we play AoS. I didn't really know much about GW's employment/pay policies. I'm not totally surprised but... I feel a little "dirty" buying stuff now.

    To the part I quoted, even though we play AoS, I agree that it's not nearly as interesting as Warhammer Fantasy to me. Maybe it's because AoS it's still somewhat of a fledgling world (since 2015)? Maybe it's because the "Fantasy Europe" setting gave TOW some more familiar ground?

    To digress a bit from the topic, but not too far I think, another friend of mine got Warhammer+. When we watched the Blood Angels show, I was disappointed to see that it was created by "Warhammer Storyforge". Now, I worked for a company for many years, where everything I created was company property and I was okay with it. But, at least they did put our names in books that we wrote or drew... once we brought it up to them. This from GW feels frustrating to me. Just put the names of those that wrote the episode and did the animation! Or is it that every idea is a "think tank" with no actual lead writer(s) or artist(s)? After ranting just a bit, I will confess that we didn't watch to see if there were credits at the end of each episode... color me embarrassed if the crew is listed.
     

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