I am new to Fantasy. There are not any other Lizardman players in my area that I know of, so I have not seen any great tactics or been able to get much advice. If you know of a good player, or you are one yourself, what is the correct play style or mind set to make Lizardmen be their best? I think they are an elite army, so I do pretty well, but sometimes I think it is the army and not me. I know I can read the tactics articles, and I have. I want something more concise and insightful from a successful player, if they would be so kind. What play style fits Lizardmen best? What units make that style work? What must be in the list to allow it to adapt to changing situations? Give me the "When to hold 'em, and when to fold 'em." philosophical summary.
I find that proper use or terrain is esensialy for a Lizardmen army, whether it's setting up the board, or setting up ambushes, terrain is quite important for us. I believe it is because we lack many useful long range attacks. and many of our units are skirmishers who also have the aquatic rule, so water terrain is especially valuable for us where other races would rather just avoid it. For instance, If you manage to get your Chameleons in a piece of water terrain, It's a -3 BS penalty to shoot at them, this makes another wise squishy target rather hard to kill. Also in 8th skirmishers are steadfast in terrain like woods. so it's a good idea to have your Skinks and Salamander in a nice woods or swamp and set up a firebases, preferably somewhere in your opponents path. Also terrain can help our non-skirmishing units hide from autiliary and other ranged attacks while advancing up the field, potentially setting up some ambushes and countercharges while being protected from ranged attacks.
A couple units of 25 Saurus blocks in front and a Life Slann in a unit of TG castled up right behind, add a Steg (or two) on the flanks, add couple salamanders and some Skink Skirmishers in the mix; stuff a hand full of Chameleons in your opponents back field... You are going to win most your games. Saurus are your bread and butter, after Chaos Warriors they are the best fighting units there are. They can go toe-to-toe with just about anything in the game and hold. You back them up with another block unit or a Steg and they mow enemy units and monsters down.
Also after Temple Guard, Hammerers, Longbeards, Swordmasters, White Lions, Executioners, Bloodletters, Bestigors, Greatswords (debatable), and Grave Guard But Saurus are indeed very good, especially against more chaff core. I was just disgruntled to see them disintegrate against Swordmasters earlier today (to be expected - still won the game though due to the Swordmasters then bouncing off Invincible Temple Guard).
Almost.... I thought I was... Almost ... unkillable till the following happened... Chaos Turn 1 Hellcannon misfires: Result = 3, Thzzzz, All wizards miscast. Slann miscast: Result = 3, Dimensional Cascade, Str 10 hit for all under the large template placed on the Slann, no look out sir allowed. Also on a further D6 roll of 1-3 he is taken away to the realm of Chaos. I rolled a 2... bye bye Slann I also rolled 2 1s for the Temple Guard unit... all but 2 died. Awesome start to the battle!
That is why I always (ALWAYS) take cupped hands. Even with a Life slann, I do not trust the dice to work for me on the throne of vines roll.
Chaos had the first turn. The Slann was a Life Slann. I had Cupped Hands but I was under the impression that I could not pass the Miscast from the Hellcannon Thzzz? I guess fluff wise I thought it was not my Slann that miscast but rather it was the Slann suffering effects like a miscast. It would be good to make it clear that it can/cant be used?
Just to give you an idea of how bad the luck was... Misfire 1/6 Thzzz result on Hellcannon Misfire Chart 1/6 Dimensional Cascade result on Miscast Table 2-4. 6/36 1/6 Sucked off to the real of Chaos 1/2 Total chance of getting sucked to the realm of chaos from firing a Hellcannon = 1/432 = ~0.2315% ... assuming no Cupped Hands or Throne of Vines Save!
TG death stars are crap, and if you say otherwise your totally wrong, in a tournament environment taking TG is thw most stupid mistake you can make. Not only do you pin your slan to the unit, where he is easily caught and killed, but you have 20-30 horribly over cost models on the table, giving you opponent easy point's, and not much in return. On top of that each time you miscast you TG get slaughtered. You say the throne and stone combo, like a semi intelligent opponent will let you cast both in the same faze. The unit is hard to kill with common troops, but you have 700-800 points in one unit, is a weak gamble. Especially if it has a very limited killing potential and must rely on fickle magic to be worth while. I can thing of so many things that can completely wipe the unit out for much less point's invested. a well used scroll with good timing will loses you the game 2/3 times. The last comment on TG, while Death star unit's can be difficult to over come they they will win you the game but only against poor player's. Life is a good lore, but shadow and light give so much more. Must go now, will wright up some stuff later.
The TG/Slann Life death star has its time and place If not in a Template Guard unit, how do you run your Slann? In a unit? Solo? Which masteries?
I'm currently playing with stupid ETC rules, Running a solo BSB slan on light. Plaque of Tepok Obsidian Amulet Focused Rumination Belcalming Congitation Soul stone Higher state of consciousness Crown of command This way I have only spent 530 point's on general, BSB, 4 lev, mage, and tarpit character, like the DE lord. Even brake lone monsters like hydra, flank charge the thing, and smile, you just won combat by 3) Leaving the rest for unit's. but back to the topic, If you want to be great you need to follow KillerK's guide to greatness . 1. KNOW THY RULES, you need to have the BRB + all erratas, to all army's + army books memorized, and potential strong army list's, as well as any surprised a list/items each can muster. This way you wont be surprised by any thing, and the chances that something unexpected may happen that will cost you the game will be minimal. Know all the loop holes in the rules, so you can watch out for them (having knowledge of loop holes, doesn't mean you should always use them), but sometimes it comes in handy. 2. KNOW THY TACTICS, use the rules with full understanding, to isolate weak point's of enemy list's, and hit them where it hurts. Thing's like baiting, speed bumping, tar pitting, delaying are not tactics they are tool's to achieve a tactic. Not to mistake for tactic on it's own, many players don't see the difference. Have to have prepared different scenarios of how to defeat a certain army/build. 3. BE A GOOD SPORT, AND HAVE FUN, a great attitude will get you further then the above, people will want to play you, even if you massacre them, because your a fun opponent. And the game will be much more enjoyable. If you enjoy the game you will have greater motivation to play. (a good trick is change an army or gaming system once in a while, so you don't get bored) 4. LEARN FORM YOUR MISTAKES, I have never seen a player, that doesen't make a mistake, during a battle, analyze each battle, talk with your opponent. Ask him why did he did, this and not that, what would he do if you did something different, if your a good sport your opponent will be a fountain of tactical knowledge, remember as much as you can, for analysis later on. 5. TRY TO LOSE FROM TIME TO TIME, If an opponent is struggling to beat you, and failed horribly game after game, take a weaker list and let him gain a minor win, or at least get a draw, (with out him knowing about his), he will have more motivation to play the game, the more motivated players the higher gaming standard's in your club/area, which in the long run will increase your skill, as you will have more demanding opponent's. 6. PLAY MORE, get in more games, tournament's, play with different opponent's, this will make the first two point's fun , play over the Internet, you can get great opponent's from all over the world, new ideas new possibilities. 7. PAINT YOUR ARMY, player's tend to fear opponent's with a beautiful army, this makes them play more cautiously/defensibly usually they are uncertain, increasing their chances of mistakes, you can exploit. 8. HAVE A GOOD ARMY BUILD, never enter a tournament with an army you have not played a few game with. Most of the time you army will be getting tweaked form game to game, before an event play it, with out changes with 3-4 with different opponent's, so you know what you can expect. 9. Play to the last round or lizard, never give up. I had many game in which I lost my slan in turn 2/3 and still managed to come out with a win. (only time I would consider giving up , is if time is an issue ) 10. THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE, before deployment you must have a battle plan ready. THE BATTLE PLAN what to include. 1. Never! ever! expect that something will happen. like a spell will get cast, or that my oldblood should kill those goblin riders and overrun into. This type of thinking will loose you in the long run. Always think what will haven if not. You can always roll bad on power dice, or you can flunk a attack, or the opponent can roll double one's on a break test. Cast a spell earlier that can change the outcome. Always think what if?, many of the times you will go ahead and hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. 2. if you have a good army list, take a few moment's to deploy your troops in such a fashion, that you will be able to, deal with opponent's nastiness, either by stalling it with skink's teradons and any thing else, blocking with slan work's too. until you take his army apart, or hit them in such a manner that they will not lift from the attack, and use skink's and such to keep his supporting unit's from doing any supporting. 3. If you don't have to risk it then don't. if your winning don't cast any big spell's with the slan, a bad miscast can ruin you win. 4.if you have determination, self esteem, and you can organize your self you will achieve greatness on virtually any thing. Most people don't. In general that's all .
I would much rather have my slann in a TG bunker than running around the table. As stated in other threads, if the slann is in trouble in that unit, you have much bigger problems. Myself, I do not worry about the game stopping spells such as purple sun. I try to either dispell them or buff my units up with lore of light. Or avoid them altoghether.
But spending 600-800 on a unit, that is worth their point's only when. 1. you cast Throne of vines 2. your opponent won't dispell it. 3. you cast stone skin 4. your opponent won't dispell it. 5. Rolling well on wind's of magic that you have enough dice to cast earlier mentioned spell's if you fail in one of the above mentioned point's, the unit is just an highly overpriced, deathstar and a pretty weak one considering the point investment. And you have to repeat this process each time the unit is in combat. It's fun once in a while, but too many thing's can go wrong, and is not recommended for serious games, such as tournament play. Since I realized this not only 'em I placing high, but I'm winning tournament's. Your chances are better to hope that your opponent will flunk his attack's. A strategy based upon getting TG in to combat and hoping for dubble sixe's on a cast roll, sound's lousy. All you opponent has to do is stop one spell a turn and he has a +/- 700 point advantage over you, if you ask me that's not a very smart move. If you want a tough unit, better invest in saurus + crown of command oldblood.
I don't agree. The TG bunker can be very effective and tough because it can stand up quite well to combat anyway with T4 and a 4+ save, just like Saurus. You don't really need to cast Vines and Stone unless you're about to get shredded by Blood Knights or a Dragon or something. The point is, because you're Stubborn reorallable Ld9, you can wait for a good gust from the Winds of Magic, even if you only have a few Temple Guard left, then you can buff the unit up, and in one turn the enemy unit bounces off the Temple Guard, doing no damage, you regrow your ranks, and suddenly the enemy is fleeing. Saurus with a Crown of Command Oldblood may be fairly tough, but they'll never be able to take a beating for a few turns and then suddenly say 'psyche!', and watch the enemy scatter before them in horror. Plus the Oldblood can be attacked, and you're relying on being in range of a BSB to get a reroll.
Not sure why people down on the TG, they are cheaper version of Chaos Warriors (16 vs 18) WS4 T4 S5 with the Halberds, their biggest down fall is low I and the Slann grenade sitting in the middle of them.
considering other options that we can field, and the synergy in our army, the TG are one of the weakest choices we have.
weakest link of our army is small core choise i would say, and special too. thats is TG are overpriced in my opinion yes theyre good with magick, heck even skinks would be great with magic. But when you comepare Tg to other similar cost you see the downfall. and ranked skinks ar way too price to get a cheap tarpiting unit. just look at marauders with GW and skinks the same cost LOL. IF TG had heavy armour and helberds would go to optional weapon meaning -2/1Pt from model than yes they would be great. But now you almost get the same thing in CC like saurus for 4+pts. in some ocassions my saurus performed even better than TG sadly :\ But our units are pricy because we have a super mage. Thats my 2ct
heeeeey. to all of you TG haters lets combare to..... chaos warriors with halberds and shields tg thy both have movement 4 chaos warriors are at ws 5 while tg 4 +1 warriors bs........ s they both have s 5 with halberds t both have 4 armour save they both have 4+ in cc and 3+ vs shooting w 1...... i 2 vs 5 this is huuuge vs sun and pit but thats it...... +2/3 chaos warriors they both have 2 a ld lets just say generals so 10 but TG have stubborn and cold blooded (unbreakable) +2/3 chaos warriors cost one more than tg tg +1 TG are immune to psychology while warriors aint debatable... really they dint look all that bad..... however warriors can have far better upgrades and what do you do with your slann when an abom is running rampage with warp spikes? and what else can have flaming banner and take down regenerating stuff? coc? NO cause they truly are overpriced. i see your oldblood is awesome unless you meet : brets with killingblow lord, chaos with 6 s 6 attacks on lord, daemons with letters they only need to killing blow once, ogre tyrant, giant that picks him up... multi wound lizard char, carno, abom, hydra, monster riding lord, mino lord, magic weapon lords, and no more stubborn for you. i think lone slanns are a very good option, but that is not because tg are bad, thats cause slann is overpowered!