For the cham skinks special rules for scouting, it says that if they cannont be seen, they can be however close to the enemy but if they can be seen by a unit they have to be 12" away from the enemy does this mean the unit in question or any enemy for example, my chameleon skinks scouted behind the ranks of ogres about 5 inches away from them, but he had some Gnoblar trabber (skirmishers) at the back 20" away that could plainly see me, does that mean that they cannot set up ANYWHERE within 12" of the ogre army Thanks
My understanding has always been this: If you deploy them out in the open, with out being behind something or in trees or a water feature (skink exclusive) then they have to be 12" away. However if they have somewhere to hide then they can be anywhere regardless of who is around.
yes, but im saying im out in the open 24" away from someone who CAN see me but 2" away from someone who CANT see me because the a squad can see me do i have to be 12" away from anyone on the board
Yes you would have to be 12" away, being behind someone still counts as being in the open. To quote the rule book pg.96 "..."They can be set up anywhere on the table more than 10" away from the enemy and must be out of site of ANY enemy troops AND in or behind interposing terrain (not out in the open!)." If they had terrain to hide in the could start behind the ogres, due to the chameleon skink special rule that allows them to start anywhere so long as they have something to hide in, however I'm assuming in this situation they didn't, thus because they are in line of site with the gnoblar they would need to be withing 12" of any enemy, because they are going now by the second part of their special rule, which allows them to be in line of site so long as they are 12" away from any enemy. Normally a scout wouldn't be able to start there at all.
But to quote the chameleon skinks (page 27) they may be set up exactly like scouts, but with no minimum distance between the and the enemy, or placed in sight of the enemy (even in the open), but ,more then 12" away from them now im intrested in the second bit it says "more then 12" away from them" now when it says them, does "them" mean the unit which they are visable to or does "them" mean the WHOLE enemy army
Well for what its worth I would look at it this way - Because they are Chameleons after all, they "disappear" to anyone looking directly at them from more than 12" away. If it is closer than 12" they have to use the terrain to hide. 1. Hide them like scouts as close to the enemy as you want as long as they are not visible to "THE enemy". I take the word THE as it's stated in the Lizzy book to mean ANY enemy regardless of where the enemy is as long as they are being viewed closer than 12". Ok fine...that seems pretty clear. As long as the little guys essentially have Line Of Sight blocked from any enemy, they can be as close as they want. Out of sight, Out of Mind so to speak. 2. Or place them "In sight of the enemy - even in the open" as the book says "but more than 12 away from them" (them meaning any enemy that has the chameleons in sight. Obviously the main emphasis here is you CAN place them IN VIEW of the enemy, even in the open BUT they must be more than 12" away. Ok that is also very clear. The key word here is [u]in sight[/u] of the enemy. In the example, they are not "In sight but are in fact out of sight to the Ogres (apply #1 above) but were well in excess of 12 " from the Gnoblars (satisfying #2 above). The idea behind all this is that the little buggers ARE experts at camoflauge and essentially blend in. Heck, they are so hard to see that you have a bonus -1 To Hit for shooting irregardless of how close they are! The point of this rule is that if you are farther away than 12" from them, -they are invisible. Period. If you are closer than 12", then you can see 'um unless they are hidden by something. I would certainly agree with Phantom otherwise they are really not much better than average Scouts to start with. Thanks all! Boomer
An army has 360 LOS in the deployment phase, so you can't place chameleons behind an enemy unit at the start of the game.
May I request clarification as to where it is stated that the army has 360 LOS in the deployment phase? It makes sense to me, but I will need a reference when citing this to others.
where does it say that an army has 360 los in deployment, that'd make scouts useless in all armys pretty much
It's in the direwolves faq It doesn't make scouts useless cos normal scouts have to be out of LOS anyway, it just stops people from putting chameleons and waywatchers behind someone's lines at deployment.
Well...isn't the problem with that that Scouts are technically placed after the deployment? Cause I've played in alot of GW shops even recently and there was no problem with my Chameleons deploying behind enemy lines as long as anyone couldn't see me (single characters, skirmishers, etc.) I could easily be wrong...just checking...
It clearly says in the Rulebook "If they are deployd in the controlling players deployment zone, they can be in full veiw of the enemy." In other terms, scouts can only be deployd outside your own deployment zone if you can hide them with terrain, if I'm not completely mistaken.. You still take benefitt of setting them up after the rest of the units, and in scenarios like "meeting engagment", that realy makes a difference!
Well, if you read the note for Chameleons, they have special rules, such as allowed to deploy in view if over 12' away, and can deploy as close as they wish as long as they aren't in view.
Sorry, I was reffering to regular scouts and was a bit unclear. My bad. In the case of Chamelions I see it this way: 12" out of sight(360 of ANY enemy). If you can hide them from enemys within 12", place them as close as you can.
that 12" thing is that they can be in sight of the enemy but no closer then 12" to the nearest unit that has sight of them
Haven't played cham skinks before, but came across som waywhatchers the other day.. (nasty lot that is..) Does anybody know if the rules for deployment is different then cham skinks or exactly the same?
I believe it's actually the same, since my rival recently switched to WE and loves his Waywatchers (who are morbidly hard to kill)