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8th Ed. Cold One Riders.... Pointless?

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Lizards of Renown, Jun 18, 2020.

  1. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    So I’ve been messing around on list creation, primarily to fight Orcs & Goblins as that will be my next fight once quarantine is over.

    I’ve read @Scalenex’s tactica (which is fantastic) but what I’d really like is Some concepts of how people have used them.

    They seem very pricey for a 1 wound model (even with the 2+ save) and their high points means that fielding a large unit is very expensive and a potentially huge loss.

    Can anyone share their experiences with me? @NIGHTBRINGER @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl @airjamy @Imrahil @Paradoxical Pacifism @DeathBringer125 @Tk'ya'pyk

    When I first read their rules I thought they were awesome, but now starting to regret getting them.

    I’m also not talking about the CO Bus, which I do see is a tactic against war machine/lots of ballistic troops.

    Thanks guys.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
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  2. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    I don’t think they’re pointless, by any means. Given that they’re knight-level cavalry with that 2+ save plus 2 attacks each from the Saurus, they are more resilient against missile fire than Terradons or Ripperdactyls and can take on units that those units have trouble with.
     
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  3. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Righto. Can you give me a couple of examples of how you've used them?

    My current idea for the O&Gs battle is to use a combined force of Steg, Sallies and COR to smash the flanks of his army and then turn inwards, while the Sauri units take their sweet time coming down the middle.
     
  4. Karnus
    Razordon

    Karnus Well-Known Member

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    I have only ever used them as a scar vet delivery system - I would argue that while expensive they are capable of breaking some nuts that are otherwise tough to crack by other means (e.g. chaos warriors).
     
  5. Paradoxical Pacifism
    Carnasaur

    Paradoxical Pacifism Well-Known Member

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    I don't play tabletop, soo... sry :oops:
     
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  6. airjamy
    Terradon

    airjamy Well-Known Member

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    I think they are just overpriced, and they don't fill a niche that our army needs to fill. As a delivery system for Scar Vets, well the point is, Scar Vets do not really need delivery systems. Single cav models are easily hidden from cannons and bolt throwers, and a 1+ rerollable armor save makes him basically impervious to anything that is not artillery. I would say Cold One Knights suffered pretty heavily from the prevalence of hordes. They are unable to take on a horde on their own, and they are too slow and unreliable (M7 really isn't all that great, Stupidity sucks on them) to be good flankers. I feel that if Rippers were maybe not in the list, you could make some case for them, but personally, i think that with the Troglodon and Swarms, the Cold One Knights are among the worst units in the book.
     
  7. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    I've only ever used them as a Scar-vet bus. I feel they are a bit sub-par on their own, but they do have their uses. I could see them useful as a flanker that charges a flank of a unit which is engaged with our Saurus Warriors or Temple guard. On the charge (with spears) each one will dish out two S5 attacks from the riders and two S4 attacks from the cold ones. Plus they won't give up too many wounds because of their good armour save.

    That said, on their own (without character support), I'd rather spend my points elsewhere.
     
  8. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Other than terrain, joining a unit of the same troop type or taking out the cannon, what are your strategies for hiding from the seemingly laser precision accuracy of cannons?
     
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  9. airjamy
    Terradon

    airjamy Well-Known Member

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    For their price you get a whole other unit of Sauri though, and Sauri are not even that great. Having to buy their spears makes it hurt even more imho..

    And those 2 things, terrain and taking down the cannon work pretty well for me. Don't forget he is safe in combat as well. I often play 1 or 2 scarvets (i think you can have 2 with them being efficient, one taking the Armor of Destiny and the other one the Dawnstone, without any of those 2 items they get a lot less OP) and 6 units of skinks to take down warmachines among other tasks. It is pretty rare that i lose a Scarvet to cannons. Also taking a lot of skinks so you have more units than your opponent also forces your opponent to put down their cannons before you put down your Scarvets and monsters, making it so you can actually make sure they are out of LOS and aking it so you can figure out a way for them to get into combat.
     
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  10. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Right. Do you have any experiences with them outside of the SV/OB deliver system?

    I’ve become quite disillusioned with them thus far....

    EDIT: You already answered this earlier, sorry.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
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  11. Warden
    Slann

    Warden Tenth Spawning

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    I have used them before. I only ever have run them in groups of 5, with or without the scar-vet.

    They are useful on the charge, after that it is marginal and very dependent on what they are attacking/eating. Having two attacks was really nice, and the strength bonus on the charge was always useful for me when I would send them against a unit of my brother's dryads or glade-guard skirmishers.

    Aside from chasing after skirmishing foot-troops, I liked using them as flank chargers. Having them behind another unit (jungle swarms, saurus, or skinks) allows them to zip in and get a flank charge a turn after the unit ahead of them accepts a charge from an enemy unit. Only thing you need to make sure is that first unit actually survives against the enemy charge/first round of combat.
     
  12. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Okay. I can't tell you how good it is to hear that someone has found them useful other than the delivery system.

    It's such a shame really as they're great models and a great idea... if they were even 10 points less they would become a lot more viable.

    Ah well.
     
  13. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    10 points less per model is a LOT. I think I'd use them a lot more for a 5 point discount.

    The basic point stands. They aren't good for much more than a Scar Veteran bus, buses for mounted Saurus heroes are not 100% required, and we have a bunch of high movement hard hitting monsters that fill the same general niche as Cold One Knights.
     
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  14. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Fair enough.
     
  15. airjamy
    Terradon

    airjamy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, such a reduction would make them spammable. I think reducing their price a bit would make them viable, i am thinking 4-5 points. I would also like a rule that mitigates their Stupidity. I am thinking something like Superior Control: making it so that Scar Vets/Oldbloods in units do not suffer from stupidity on their Cold Ones as they are hunting like a pack, the Scar Vet/Oldblood handling the leading Coldblood and the rest just following him.
     
  16. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Agree on the points.
     
  17. Cptn Timmy
    Saurus

    Cptn Timmy Active Member

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    Hey everyone, I read this thread a while ago, and I wanted to add my 2 cents. I believe that a unit of cold one riders can be a very useful tool in the box. 5 bare bones riders for 150 pts. No spears, no command, nothing. I usually include this unit in my army because I painted a unit and I like how they look. So I thought, hey let's rock see what you guys got. I have rarely regretted my choice as they accomplish a very specific goal for me. They tie up, beat, or hold an opponents st 3 core. For 150 points they can delete a tar pit from having an impact on the game. They grind, they don't die often to st3 and 20 attacks at st 4 is nothing to shake a stick at. I'm not great at the math hammer but when I looked in to it I found they can hold their own as long as you don't roll a lot of 1s. I used to use a bastiladon for this purpose, I see a hundred zombies, I push my big turtle shell at it, my 150 pts keep those zombies from gumming up my lines. This was until I realized that the speed of cold ones makes me able to point and shoot much faster at what I want them to get in to and if all else fails they threaten a flank for the whole game.
    I feel like I rambled quite a bit there, so here's a tldr:
    -Strong armor save keeps them in battle
    -20 st 4 attacks consistently hurts opponents core
    -High speed value gets them where you want them
    Point your 150 points of special at your opponents 250 pts of core (small archer units are extra fun to kill) and let them eat.
    So in summary, give it a shot, its only 150 pts, point them at an annoying unit and all you gotta do is not roll ones and not fail stupidity checks;)
     
  18. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Not a bad idea. :)

    To be honest, I'd be willing to try this out and see what happens in the real world.
     
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  19. Cptn Timmy
    Saurus

    Cptn Timmy Active Member

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    Thats the spirit!
    And if there ends up being no target for them they can always run after war machines, theeaten a flank, or even in a rare case go 2 wide and try to punk a wizard. Mind you wizard bunkers that hide behind lines like necromancer in skeletons or skaven are perfect targets for them as well
     
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  20. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    I will say that I believe I won't find them useful, but I'm always up for trying new tactics!

    At least I would be if I could play some bloody games... :mad: :(
     
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