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AoS GH2020 update

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by PabloTho, Jul 20, 2020.

  1. PabloTho
    Chameleon Skink

    PabloTho Well-Known Member

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    Salamanders up to 110
    Trog down to 220
    Oldblood down to 230
    Skink Steg Chief down to 250
    Kroak is unchanged :)

    I think these are good changes. Salamanders were a highly oppressive unit when playing with my friends, now they're a little less of an auto-include, but I couldn't yet say whether this knocks us out of the competitive big-leagues (they may have been a bit of a crutch unit).

    Also super happy to see Petrifex taken down a peg.
     
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  2. Blitzkriyg
    Chameleon Skink

    Blitzkriyg Well-Known Member

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    Salamanders were hit a bit too hard imo, 100 would have been OK. They are still top tier and in my competitive list, I'll have to drop 1 uni , but I'll still be taking 3 units
     
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  3. erians
    Razordon

    erians Active Member

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    Yeah going from 80 to 110 is pretty rough, that's almost a 40% increase which is more than they usually do, but salamanders seemed to be at the center of the "negative play experience" a lot of people had with the new book so I'm glad they target some of the more "unfun" aspects of the game. Petrifex was another "unfun" thing and they got deleted from the game, which will help saurus lists.

    Kroak being untouched is going to upset some people. Im not complaining though. Oh and you forgot Old-blood on carnosaur, down 20 pts to 230.
     
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  4. PabloTho
    Chameleon Skink

    PabloTho Well-Known Member

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    Damn, 990 points of Sallies? Out of interest, what else is in your list? I would be horrified to see that on the other side of the table! :D
     
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  5. Blitzkriyg
    Chameleon Skink

    Blitzkriyg Well-Known Member

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    Kroak
    asrolith
    2x priests
    starseer
    3x 10 skinks
     
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  6. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    wow your going to be really light on bodies.
     
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  7. Blitzkriyg
    Chameleon Skink

    Blitzkriyg Well-Known Member

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    71 bodies isn't too bad considering I can clear most of the board pretty efficiently, and I did just lose 12 bodies. My skink focused list has about 130, but the sallie killing power is definitely better for comp
     
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  8. Grotpunter
    Ripperdactil

    Grotpunter Well-Known Member

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    I expected way worse, but I guess there is always the winter FAQ right around the corner.
     
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  9. Mekeji
    Skink

    Mekeji Member

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    So with this update. What's everyone's thoughts on Razordons for Thunderlizard Thunderquake lists? I'd hate to bring a single Salamander, but 330 points for a 5 bravery unit is super risky. Meaning the Razordons are back in town. I think they might be useful in the role of declaring them swift, run, shoot, charge, shoot, combat with their -2 rend tails. They obviously aren't as good as Salamanders in that role but given you need a hunting pack to fill the thunderquake.
     
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  10. Dread Saurian
    Temple Guard

    Dread Saurian Well-Known Member

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    (Stares at you with my homies)
     
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  11. erians
    Razordon

    erians Active Member

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    Skinks have way more firepower for the points though, even if they requite more support. 40 buffed skinks do more damage than salamanders for less points and have way more bodies for objectives. I've yet to play with the new points but I think I'll be replacing at least 1 of my salamander units with skinks, worst case I'll dump them all for more skinks & support pieces.

    Unless your list is already CP hungry then Bastilladons are better than pre-nerfed salamanders for pure shootng. The issue with Razordons aren't just that salamanders were a straight up better choice, they are just kind of bad.
     
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  12. Mekeji
    Skink

    Mekeji Member

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    I am already running 2 bastiladons in the Thunderquake and they are chugging CP for double shooting. I'm just debating how to fulfill the requirements for the Thunderquake with the Salamander increase. If I should pull the Razors off the shelf, just cut down to a MSU Salamander squad, or maybe even purchase some of them derpy Kroxigor models that I've avoided for so very long.
     
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  13. Blitzkriyg
    Chameleon Skink

    Blitzkriyg Well-Known Member

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    I originally thought this too, but in my games, a unit of 3 salamanders has consitently out performed 40 buffed skinks. It will require a bit more testing though.
     
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  14. Lizerd
    Skar-Veteran

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Overall the salamander changes were expected, especially as so many people whined about it. however on the whole we have come off pretty well, oldblood is more viable, trog is slightly less worthless, and skink chief on stegadon is more viable. Also big note is that kroak came away unscathed, which honestly is really good, he didnt need to get more expensive. Honestly this probably is the best we could have asked for as no significant testing and tournament results have been gathered so most of the changes here are probably guess work
     
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  15. PabloTho
    Chameleon Skink

    PabloTho Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree more - particularly regarding Kroak. I think people tend to view his point cost as too low, whilst gauging his capability with Astroliths, Endless spells and Asterisms factored in. Add up all those points and it makes more sense.
     
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  16. Grotpunter
    Ripperdactil

    Grotpunter Well-Known Member

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    If you really want to play with Razordons, go for it but there is it really no contest if you look at power. Salamanders blow Razordons out of the water big time, it is not even close. In Coalesced the Salamanders even get an extra melee attack, so them charging in is also super deadly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
  17. Mekeji
    Skink

    Mekeji Member

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    I mean warscroll wise yeah Sallies are straight up better. However now a full unit is 90 points more expensive and they are still a bravery 5 unit that now cost more than a 40 block of saurus. So fielding them is a big risk in losing your point investment. While Razordons still sit at a reasonable price range. Though I'm still not really sure if they are worth given that Kroxigors or a single salamander would fill the battalion requirements. In my starborne lists Salamanders are still going to be a bread and butter unit, especially for summoning.

    However I personally don't like them for coalesced at their current price range for a full blob which can evaporate from a single lost model into a whole chunk of the unit gone. Granted at 110 for a single one I wouldn't be too hesitant on that given its reliability for cleaning up left over wounds.
     
  18. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    Taking bad unit because it is cheaper seems like a weird point to me. I'd better take salamanders and lose them then take razordons and they do nothing. I tried them several times and their shooting is super-poor. Even when I take only single salamander to fill my thunderquake, it does alot. Razordons do nothing. To fill thunderquake instead of salamanders I'd better take 3-6 kroxigors. Razordons are the last resort, when I have only 80 pts to fill the slot. They could at least give them +1 attack in melee base. Unfortunately, in modern AoS they are not worth 80 pts.
     
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  19. Mekeji
    Skink

    Mekeji Member

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    The thing is that razordons on paper at least seem to have some use. I haven't used them in practice yet in the new book as I was eager to finally make use of salamanders more. Taking a lower tier unit because a price difference isn't that strange of a thing considering that its about point efficiency. Especially when the point difference is 90 points. So when people say salamanders are better it is uncleare if they factor in that rather large point gap, as we all know they are better, salamanders are bonkers now. My main inquiry was into if that 90 point gap gave any value to razordons who are obviously worse than salamanders, or if Kroxigor or MSU Salamander were still better paths for thunderquakes.
     
  20. Grotpunter
    Ripperdactil

    Grotpunter Well-Known Member

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    This is 3 Razordons shooting an average of 7 shots each + Starpriest (360 pts) vs 3 naked Razordons (240 pts) vs 3 naked Salamanders (330 pts). The last row is the first just with an additional 4 attacks each (above average) with -1 rend.

    upload_2020-7-24_0-29-18.png


    You can maybe make an arguement for Razordons if you buff them and get to charge in, but thats typically not what I want my Salamanders/Razordons to be doing. I want their ranged attack to delete whatever I deem as a big threat. In Coalesced the Salamanders will do the same damage in melee due to +1 jaw attack, so their melee output is stronger too.

    The beauty in Salamanders is that you dont have to babysit them (well you should keep a hero within range to Inspiring Presence in Coalesced I guess) and they just do so well with zero buffs.
     
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