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GW News: XMAS AND LIZARDS

Discussion in 'General Hobby/Tabletop Chat' started by Cristhian MLR, Jan 23, 2016.

  1. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    No... they must remain rare and elusive.



    Not bad... but the new Treebeard one is much better in my opinion.
     
  2. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    The thing is we want the whole things back. But they won't give it to this unless your name is chaos
     
  3. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    O sure, the followers of the other chaos-gods can be fairly one-dimensional as well; but I think there's one difference with the other gods.

    The followers of the other gods are allowed to also show (some) virtues, at the very least initially when they go down the path of damnation. And occasionally at later points as well. A Khorne warlord is merely a warlord who took his conquering one step to far. A Tzeentch cultist is a someone taking his scheming against his rivals one step to far. A follower of Nurgle is someone who in desperation sought the comforting salvation of grandfather's care. This allows those followers to be a bit more interesting. But there isn't really a virtuous way to fall to Slaanesh; you can't exactly go down the path of excess with good intentions.

    It also makes it easier to empathize with the followers of those gods. Selling your soul to Khorne for power & conquest or Tzeentch for knowledge & change, to Nurgle for salvation & familial brotherhood those are just basic powerfantasies. But selling your soul to Slaanesh to kick puppies & flay some torture victims isn't exactly something most people really empathize with. Which is also why the fans tend to focus on the 18+ aspect of Slaanesh; it's the one form of excess that's at least sort of acceptable/enviable.
     
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  4. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    OldBlood

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

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    What we want is the whole thing in PLASTIC. TOW has already been ruined before it’s even started by the fact that Forge World are doing it on their own. GW once again have buggered up a huge opportunity to create something that would have appealed to so many people, now it’ll only appeal to the tiny percentile that can afford an entire army of Forge World models.
     
  5. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    meh, I'm fine with leaving the old world behind proper. But we do need to actually get some characters in the mortal realms for the various factions then. It's kind of ridiculous we have 1 named character. And we're not the only ones who are in desperate need of more characters.

    Wait it's pure forgeworld? Lol
     
  6. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Then that makes them unique among their peers. :)

    It does depend though on how you choose to frame it. Everyone has hidden desires, and those that fall to Slaanesh simply have those desires run completely wild and uncontrolled. One could easily chart a step by step graduated path of progression from seemingly grounded desires to the very absolute limits of decadence and depravity. From the sweet indulgence of eating a chocolate chip cookie to the kicking puppies and flaying of tortured victims. ;)
     
  7. Cristhian MLR
    Razordon

    Cristhian MLR Well-Known Member

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    SIGVLAD EXPERIENCE REQUIEM

    Seriously, I just can not wait for the Throgg memes.

    Also, expect proxies of him with Golden Saints from Saint Seiya.

    The Twinsouls are a big hit and miss for me. Some faces look terribad for a Slaanesh army; that one with the tongue out looks like a Nurgling.

    The other variant is more appealing. They look like Chaos Stormcasts. Fantasy Slaaneshi Marines=?

    The other surprise for me was the House Van Saar. They look just straight out of Infinity. I love them.

    Chaos Warband: Khagra is cute as Chaosrealm. I love the kind of women who can kick my ass.

    Her sister is ugly. 0/10 wouldn't date.

    Dark Eldar and Dark Angels for February, IIRC. Wonder what their Combat Patrols (ComPats)? will look like.
     
  8. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    O sure, but the ones who let their desires run that uncontrolled and wild would mostly be various addicts and the occasional psychopath. Not exactly groups people tend to want to emulate or like.

    Essentially; people might want to emulate the king who fell to Khorne as a power fantasy; or at least the conquering aspect of his reign. But I don't exactly know anyone whose powerfantasy is to become a hopeless addict and then spiral into madness and start kicking puppies for fun :p
     
  9. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    I don't think we should strive to emulate any of the Chaos gods! Warhammer in general is not really home to many figures or factions worthy of our aspiratons. Even the best of them (something like Bretonnia) is still well below modern ethical and moral standards.

    Kicking puppies for fun versus unthinking psychopathic killing machine. I'm not sure there is much of a high ground to be had here. :D

    If (← key word) I had to choose, I'd rather be a Sigvald figure than some bloated, puss-filled, guts hanging out, plague carrying, disease spreading agent of Nurgle. That said, Tzeentch is still the way to go... much more so than Slaanesh!


    I actually find Nurgle to be the least likely power-fantasy:
    Khorne: physical prowess
    Tzeentch: mental/magical prowess
    Slaanesh: pleasure, beauty, indulgence


    Nurgle: I want to make people sick... all the while looking as smelling terrible
     
  10. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    I meant more with respect to emulating their feats, not necesarly their morals and ethics :p

    At least the unthinking psychopathic killer started out merely wanting to unite the lands under one glorious kingdom; at some point there was a greater good. The follower of Slaanesh is literally just kicking puppies for shits and giggles. So yeah, some higher ground :p

    In fairness; that's mostly physical though. Ignoring physical appearances followers of Nurgle would be more pleasant, at least they're nice and try to share their gifts and build up a familial brotherhood with eachother :p

    And yeah, ultimatly Tzeentch remains the best :p

    Nurgle's powerfantasy would be uplifting the poor and wretched, finding brotherhood, accepting your problems and sharing your blessings.

    And the powerfantasy of Slaanesh would be perfection except that the perfect warrior/conqueror would already be a follower of Khorne which if we take this metaphorically would also include sports and the like, while the perfect sage/artist/other intellectual pursuit would be a follower of Tzeentch. Which leaves Slaanesh rather empty as the only things left are vain pursuits; like being the prettiest.
     
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  11. ChapterAquila92
    Carnasaur

    ChapterAquila92 Well-Known Member

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    As a Van Saar player, I'm pretty ecstatic that they're finally getting their own book and an expansion to their model range. I also look forward to seeing how the cyberachnids and arachni-rig turn out as soon as they have model support.
     
  12. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    OldBlood

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

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    Certainly all the new stuff is unfortunately going to be made by Forge World, as in the Kislev article it was a Forge World designer who was discussing the new model designs. The only way GW can save it is if they brought back the plastic model ranges of existing armies that were canned or almost entirely canned during the AoS era, but even that is unlikely as far as I can see. Knowing GW it will almost certainly be pure Forge World.

    Yep, the closest we have to good guys in Warhammer are Bretonnians and Dwarfs, the former being chivalrous but treating peasants like dirt, the latter being loyal and just but also drunk and grudge-bearing. 40K is heralded as the epitome of grimdarkness, but Fantasy wasn’t far behind.

    Nurgle’s power-fantasy is specifically being immune to disease, old age and sickness, which would be great...if it didn’t require you to gain ten stone and have massive gashes ripped into your belly so your guts fall out. All of the Chaos Gods do have a positive aspect, but 90% of the time they are a hideously unpleasant bunch.

    And certainly I agree with both of you, Tzeentch would be the best path of the four, especially for me as I’m much more of a mental person than physical person, but all the Chaos Gods represent man’s greed for different things.
     
  13. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    That's a very positive view of the Khornate lord/warrior but in my opinion, a bit unrealistic when compared to the fluff. Many/most of Khorne's mortal underlings are warriors and chieftains of the north. I don't think the motives or actions of these people were ever in any way related to a greater good. I think of them as a more extreme and fantastical version of an Attila the Hun type character. Their motive is personal power and glory, not any sense of a greater good.

    In relation to the high ground, I'd rather have some person come by an kick a puppy than murder my whole family.

    Sharing their "gifts" equals an agonizing and horrible death. If someone went around purposefully infecting people with Ebola, they'd be tried for murder... regardless if they thought it was a gift or not. You can essentially make the same argument for Slaanesh. They too are trying to share their gifts of excess, experience and pleasure.

    At least we can agree on that. :)

    That's an interesting point on the perfect warrior. They might be pursuing that perfection in different ways. I'll use Game of Thrones (the earlier seasons, not the trash heap it became later on) as an example. A Khorne warrior might be someone like the Mountain, while a Slaaneshi champion might be someone like prince Oberyn Martell. Both are highly effective combatants, but in very different ways (and yes, I am aware of how their encounter ends... fitting too, the Slaaneshi fighter falling victim to his own overconfidence).

    Often in the Warhammer lore, the Khorne warriors are portrayed as mindless frenzied blood hungry berserkers. While effective, that is not my ideal vision of a perfect warrior. I prefer the agile, refined, precise and refined approach. That is something that is typically better represented by Slaanesh.

    Another interesting point on the professions:
    • Khorne ➝ athlete
    • Tzeentch ➝ scholar, politician
    • Slaanesh ➝ actor, model, artisan
    • Nurgle ➝ ironically, a doctor
    I think the artisan label fits Slaanesh much better than Tzeentch. Tzeentch is more associated with intelligence (i.e. scholar) and manipulation (i.e. politician). Even in 40k (Horus Hersey novels), those that eventually succumb to Slaanesh show an interest/appreciation/aptitude for the arts. Art is the capture and representation of beauty and experience... sounds pretty Slaaneshi to me.
     
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  14. Lizards of Renown
    OldBlood

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

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    Just remember lads, the boons of Tzeentch are never exactly what you bargained for... Chaos is fickle!

    Example: The Twisted Twins
    Example: Warpflame

    (As an aside, it was very amusing to me to find a thread about upcoming models and suddenly find myself in a Chaos Quad-Cabal meeting! ;) )
     
  15. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    you-know-whos-awesome-read-the-first-word.jpg

    A perfect summary of my thoughts on the subject!


    True... but we also have the invincible Hortennse Lord of doom! :cool:

    Frighteningly frequent occurrence I must admit. :p Words for the word god!
     
  16. Just A Skink
    Terradon

    Just A Skink Well-Known Member

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    I tend to agree with you on this, @Lizards of Renown. Not that I wanted GW to blow up the old world, but what was the point if you're just going to bring back so many of the old armies and heroes (sorry Brets and TK)?
     
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  17. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Indeed, Nurgle's acolytes are unted on sight (as any servant of chaos). :p

    When Samheim was a member of the forum, he was used to write a story which, beside many flaws, got a very interesting example of a human that sold his soul to Nurgle. Pretty good and convincing. You could definitely sympathize with the poor fellow.
     
  18. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    wait are we talking about the "adult" seraphon fanfick? i couldent get very far in that it was like reading Empress Teresa.
     
  19. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Due to obvious reason, as Mod i was "forced" to wholly read it.
    Not my cup of tea but, as said, that single part was on spot. Maybe i could post here the passage, as it's now relevant to the discussion...
     
  20. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    you could but i would let that whole nonsense rot in the corner we left it in. no need to dredge up anything made by the dark one.
     

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