Wow this is a great thread. Lizardmen honoring dead is a fantastic topic, there is some really great stuff here (and it probably should be indexed so I can find it later for reference…). It took me a while to find time to come up with a response for how to commemorate the fallen, so since I am a big fan of mayan history… The Mayan’s used stone stelae to glorify the king and record his deeds, normally with a depiction of the king in warrior ceremonial guard, often with enemies trampled or tied up underfoot ready to be sacrificed. These stelae would often be grouped in front of pyramids, near plazas, or in large “forests” of stone columns, where each of the individual stone stelae commemorating kings were considered the “trees.” They also often had small altars built in front of the stone stelae, making it a stelae-altar combinations in many city-states. Some examples of stone stelae: Stelae from Copan, Honduras (most of the best Mayan stelae come from this city) Stelae and Altar at Copan (drawing by Frederick Catherwood) Stelae at Quirigua, Honduras Stelae at Copan Temple of Warriors at Chichen Itza, Mexico Drawing of Stelae 31 from Tikal Truly rich and influential kings would just build massive temple-tombs for themselves (or a previous really great ruler). The best example of this is probably the temple built for King Pacal the Great of Palenque: This is his tomb: And here is some artwork of the lid to his sarcophagus, pretty impressive piece of stonework (and definitely not a space bike, sorry guys): So onto the Lizardmen Slann- since the Slann are on the top of Lizardmen society they would probably skip the stone stelae and just have massive temples built for when the die, like the greatest kings of all the ancient Mayan temple cities. In fact, each Slann probably already has a gigantic temple built for it to use in life, so after it dies it can just be turned into one massive temple-tomb complex. I am sure Kroak’s temple is one of the biggest ones in Itza. For those Slann that continue to survive to the present, I wouldn’t be surprised if the skink priests and attendants who run the daily affairs of their temple continuously “update” the temple’s many vaults, ornate murals, and other recording works of art to dutifully record every second of the Slann’s pronouncements. Also the Lizardmen take the time to mummify the slann’s remains so they can remain intact, which is quite a feat considering how much a jungle climate will decay bodily remains over the centuries. I agree with @Scalenex and doubt the Lizardmen would try to mummify anybody else (they would have to be an exception of epic proportions). Skink Priests- I don’t see why skink priests wouldn’t have either a stone stelae or a minor temple built to them when they die, but then again their lives would be much shorter than a saurus, so maybe they just get a relief carving when they die? More famous priests could have a stone column or stelae constructed upon their death, with only the most powerful priests receiving an entire minor temple dedicated upon their deaths. I see most skink priests nominally serving under one of the Slann ruling in a temple city, or dedicated to a specific Old One, so when the skink priest’s die they could possibly be buried in either the Slann’s or the Old One’s temple complex. Saurus Heroes- I could see saurus oldbloods or scar veterans being honored by the skink artisans of a temple city upon their final heroic death in some way, either with an epic mural, stone stelae, or some other artistic work that will last for future generations to remember their exploits. Due to their vast and bloody contribution in their service of the Great Plan, I see saurus heroes having a stone stelae or carving commemorating their spawning date, wars, battles, enemies defeated, monstors slain, skaven eaten, and other heroic actions preserved in stone. I also like the idea that @Essmir mentioned about story telling, I could see the saurus and skinks preserving an oral tradition about truly famous saurus warriors who died fighting for the Lizardmen armies. Regular Saurus Warriors, Skinks, and Kroxigors- I don’t really know how they would be remembered upon death except by their immediate spawn-kin. @Slanputin's idea of a Lizardmen acropolis is a great idea. I know the Maya who weren’t part of the nobility often buried their family members near their home centers, so I could see the remains of departed skinks being buried near their barrio homes and commemorated by a household artisan with some simple stone edifice, or the saurus warriors bringing back the remains of their fallen comrades in a great procession after a war to bury them alongside centuries of their fallen spawn-kin. Of course if the battlefield is too far away some sort of monument or burial site could be constructed to commemorate their fallen comrades. I really like the “returning to water” idea from @Scalenex though, that has a lot of potential for Lizardmen funerary rites. Since the Lizardmen of my temple city have such a strong connection to Tzunki I will probably borrow this idea. Hope this helps. Thanks @spawning of Bob and @Scalenex for covering so many literary universes on this site, I have more research to do now.
Looking at @mousekiller 's thread with his epic bone giant made me think about the tomb kings and their ancient relationship with the Lizardmen. SUPERFICIALLY, the art/architecture of the tomb kings could be argued to be similar to that of the art/architecture of the Lizardmen. Is there a chance that the ancient peoples of Nehekhara conducted trade with the ancient Lizardmen of the Southlands, and took up many aspects of the Lizardmen culture? In fact, WHAT IF the tomb kings got the whole idea for embalming from the Lizardmen embalming their dead Slann Mage Priests? The humans, short lived in comparison to the Lizardmen, especially the ancient saurus warriors and the verenable Slann, would probably have been jealous of these ancient beings and desired to learn ways to emulate their long life spans. Even if it was a hopeless case they would have still conducted many studies on how to extend their lives, giving birth to the mortuary cult. I am not sure if this is backed up in the fluff of the Tomb kings or not. Would be cool if the ancient inhabitants of the desert got some of their respect for the departed from their scaly neighbors to the south. EDIT: I was reminded just now that Mr. Arch Warhammer posits this idea in his Southlands video, good stuff.
The Tomb Kings book does not mention anything like this. However the 5th edition Lizardmen book has a good fluff piece about an Araby explorer attempting to locate a safe trade route through the Southlands. The Skinks addressed him in Nehekharan. The explorer balked, worried that this meant the Al Saurim were in league with the tainted ones. Then he realized that this was a dialect of Nehekharan from an era that predated the whole Nagash disaster. Not that it helped much because the scholar who understood the language refused to speak it out of superstition. Eventually the Lizardmen and Araby traders resorted to charades plus some Skinks picked up Arabyan words. The Slann refused to allow a human trade route through his jungle, but the Lizardmen and humans reached a short term accord. The humans had maps of where many oases were and the Lizardmen needed access to water to march across the desert and reclaim a stolen Slann mummy from a Tomb King. In exchange for their help, the humans got to keep all the treasure that wasn't Lizardmen in origin. Anyway, the fact that thousands of years later, the city of Zlatan had trained scribes who could more or less fluently speak Nehekharan suggested that they used to interact. To say that the Tomb Kings got their first kickstarter from the Lizardmen sort of cheapens the Tomb Kings innate awesomeness, but so what? We know Lizardmen are the best, and GW was the ones that discontinued the Tomb Kings, not us. If anyone wanted to write about early Lizardmen-Nehekharan relations, I'd be interested in reading about it. I may even steal it. At some point I want to write more about Belrikt and his Southlands Lizardmen cohorts but I'm running out of fresh ideas. I figure I need to work the Tomb Kings in there somewhere.
Well elves got their kickstarter from the Lizards too, doesn't cheapen them too much... They even claim credit for beating chaos completely by themselves I would love to see fluff concerning lizard-tomb kings relations, maybe a future writing contest about the Southlands.
We'll for a start the name of myself is one shrouded in mystery and legend for those who know their lore, I will release a short description of my origins. Ituzkn wsa a rebohtr ot em, het sols redvo me to xilee -aprt fo ym tsyro
Dude! Proof read your posts! Bonus points to anyone who writes a story based on the temple city of Chicken Itza.
@Warden This is exactly the type of conversation that gets me excited for painting and truly upset that GW through all that history to the wayside for AoS. Anyway, enough of the past. You jumped into my head on this! The Magog story was going along the same line of thought, that the first Chaos incursion came with the coming of the Slann, and thus caused the first major destruction of the world and the definitive destruction of the Old Ones, the Giants.
wait, are you suggesting that the giants could be the descendants of the Old Ones??? I have never heard this before, if this is something from the old lore I must have missed this!! I know there was a race of storm-giants living up in the not-Himalayas in warhammer that were eaten to death by the ogres, but aside from that, this is an interesting theory if that is what you are suggesting?!
Old Ones = Literal Giants? This is a good concept. Hey, @Spawningofbob, @thedarkfourth, @Bowser, anyone feel like "borrowing" this idea? I would, but of my two stories, one has already had an old one in it, and the other is an exploration of how I want the Aos fluff to work. Wait, 'storm giants' sound a fair bit like how the dragon ogres got their thing for lightening. I always have good ideas when I cant use them. Humph.
I won't be writing for the old ones anytime soon. I don’t see a need for them. If I do write them they will be more like the Irkens from invader Zim. Complete fools with technology too advanced for them to do anything with. The leader is the tallest, and the slann were given a fake mission just to get rid of them and or toy with them. That being said it is a great concept for anyone who does want to write for the old ones. It would make for a fantastic story arc.
The Old Ones came and terraformed the mahrlect out of the world when it was an ice world dominated by dragons, fimir and shaggoths (I think). The Old Ones spawned the First (us - yay!) then the other "orderly" races (up to ogres and halflings) and everything was sweet with a multi race society until the coming of Chaos (unless you read @Otzi'mandias's stuff and I suggest you do). Then a bunch of stuff happened for eight thousand years and the world blew up. Nothing important happens after that
That's a very interesting idea. Connecting the Old Oes and the Sky Titans is worthy of it's own thread.
Acropolis .....?..... Necropolis I just skimmed back through the thread. Result: I got to wondering if the correct word is being used.
Necro-polis ...dead portion of the city. Acro—polis ...highest point of the city. Not sure which @Scalenex is really thinking.
Necropolis would make sense if there were dead people buried (or "living") there. Acropolis could represent where the ceremonies took place? Would a Metropolis work better? Does that mean a place where people live in the city or a city as a whole?
Well, we all know Metropolis is where Clark Kent lives.... But, the internet says metropolis literally means mother+city. So it descibes the city that founded the lesser, newer, younger cities.
I am referring to the "Acropolis of Heroes" on page 130 of the 8th edition Big Red Book. I'm sure the Lizardmen call it something different, but I was using the standard term from the rulebook. (It bestows Stubborn and +1 to hit on units within 6 inches). It's part of my scheme to make Lizardmen themed versions of the named terrain pieces. My list of goals includes Wizards Tower, Acropolis of Heroes, Banestone, Sinister Statue, and Charnel Pit. It just so happens that the Acropolis of Heroes is the one piece I don't have a solid idea for, so I thought I'd mine the fluff forum for ideas. It could be a temple, a cairn of stones, a holy body of water, a sacred grove, a commiserative statue, a stone pylon, almost anything. I was hoping something in this thread would inspire me to make up my mind.
i'd say that an Acropolis of Heroes for lizardmen would probably be a monument of some kind. perhaps a Stele or whole line of them bearing the history of a particular temple, or perhaps just one Slann written out in (tiny) glyphs. the Mayans had a few sites with similar arrangements of Stele. Charnel pit.. well, cross posting from the "Lizardman Afterlife" thread. first part is related to the afterlife, 2nd part is how that might translate to funeral rites. which includes a site that could count as a Charnel pit.