1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

8th Ed. The BEST close combat units in all of Warhammer ~BONUS MATCHES~

Discussion in 'Other Armies Discussion' started by NIGHTBRINGER, Jul 21, 2021.

  1. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    77,508
    Likes Received:
    248,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This thread is a sort of extension to The BEST close combat units in all of Warhammer thread. It will follow the same format and guidelines as described here.

    Other than that it will...
    • be very sporadic in nature
    • feature random matchups with units selected from armies that I own (or @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER owns), but most likely it will revolve around Chaos Dwarfs
    • act as a testing ground for my units and a diagnostic tool for developing counters to enemy units
    • not likely pit any unit against the entire gambit of contests from the best CC unit tourney, but rather it will feature a few select key matchups

    Hope you guys enjoy, and as always, please share your thoughts on the matchups! !.png
     
    Imrahil and Lizards of Renown like this.
  2. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    77,508
    Likes Received:
    248,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Bull Centaur Renders vs. Mournfang Cavalry


    upload_2021-7-20_21-59-3.png

    upload_2021-7-20_22-0-2.png



    So why Bull Centaurs?...mainly because I love the models and want to see where and how they can be used. Future matchups will include K'daai Fireborn, because they are in direct army selection competition with the Bull Centaurs. The Fireborn will likely prevail in more matchups, but I want to know in what scenarios the Bull Centaurs may possibly prove more useful.

    The concern with Bull Centaurs has always been the fact that they only have two attacks each. That is below average for a monstrous unit. Can their stats (WS4, T5, 3+ armour save and S6 with GW) make up for their abysmal attacks output? For their weapon loadout, I'll be using GWs (instead of shield or AHW upgrades) as that is how I plan to run them. As per the previous tourney rules, I'll be using this same loadout in all matches, even in ones where the other options would prove to be superior. If I ever try a new loadout, I'll create a separate row/column for the entry.

    It's nice to see the Bull Centaurs pick up a hard fought victory against the Mournfang. We'll see how they do against some of the higher finishing units.
     
    Imrahil and Lizards of Renown like this.
  3. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

    Messages:
    10,817
    Likes Received:
    26,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thundercats NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

    As always, I'm sad to see my favourite Monstrous Cav lose. It's interesting though that the Bull Centaurs eventually wipe them out even though they don't win a single combat.

    -

    On a separate note, will you do requests here on match-ups, @NIGHTBRINGER ?
     
    Imrahil and NIGHTBRINGER like this.
  4. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    77,508
    Likes Received:
    248,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Probably not... at least for now. Why, did you have something particular in mind?

    At the moment, this is just me sharing my background machinations with the forum.


    I am particularly interested with the Bull Centaurs and Fireborn and also what in general can beat the Beasts of Nurgle (I doubt any CD unit can do it in a fair fight).
     
    Imrahil and Lizards of Renown like this.
  5. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

    Messages:
    10,817
    Likes Received:
    26,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Fair enough.

    I just have attention on the Chaos Warriors match-up. Something about it doesn't make sense. Maybe if I'd said MoN and Shields? Or MoN and Halberds?

    My concept of the MoN benefits being OP still exists...

    [LoR shrugs]

    Not a big deal, just bugs me slightly that I feel I didn't get them represented properly in the fight.
     
    NIGHTBRINGER likes this.
  6. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    77,508
    Likes Received:
    248,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's what they had, MoN and equipped with Halberds. That is the main loadout for the MoN Chaos Warriors.

    The other popular builds are:
    • MoT with sword and board
    • MoK with AHW

    The problem with Chaos Warriors is that they are extremely expensive for single wound models. Against the other infantry in the tournament, they were always outnumbered fairly badly. I think it was this that led to their downfall.
     
    Imrahil and Lizards of Renown like this.
  7. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,937
    Likes Received:
    32,868
    Trophy Points:
    113
    imo it would be nice to test:
    Ironbreakers
    Kroxigors
    Necropolis knights
     
  8. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    77,508
    Likes Received:
    248,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Perhaps some day.

    Necro Knights are intriguing, although we already know they won't finish as high as Demigryphs and Skullcrushers. That 3+ vs. 1+ armour save really hurts them.
     
    Imrahil and Lizards of Renown like this.
  9. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    77,508
    Likes Received:
    248,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Revenge!

    upload_2021-7-26_0-20-1.png

    upload_2021-7-26_0-6-30.png

    Another close battle, but as suspected, big time armour will likely prove to be the weakness of the K'daai Fireborn. Strength 5 is decent but not great (especially with so few attacks). I still feel that overall they will perform better than the Bull Centaurs, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
    Lizards of Renown and Imrahil like this.
  10. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

    Messages:
    10,817
    Likes Received:
    26,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hooray!

    And this doesn't factor in the superior movement and thus higher chance of getting the charge off with D3x3 (probably) S5 hits.
     
    Imrahil and NIGHTBRINGER like this.
  11. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    77,508
    Likes Received:
    248,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Or the fact that the K'daai Fireborn can "self harm" (Burning Bright special rule).
     
    Lizards of Renown and Imrahil like this.
  12. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    77,508
    Likes Received:
    248,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    upload_2021-7-26_22-8-30.png

    upload_2021-7-26_22-12-17.png

    Much like their bigger brother, the K'daai Fireborn also lose to the Witch Elves.
     
    Imrahil and Lizards of Renown like this.
  13. Imrahil
    Slann

    Imrahil Thirtheenth Spawning

    Messages:
    11,125
    Likes Received:
    23,840
    Trophy Points:
    113
  14. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    77,508
    Likes Received:
    248,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And they continue to go (much to my dismay)...

    upload_2021-8-23_1-33-4.png

    A close battle, that sees the Witch Elves pull out a razor thin victory against a sub-optimal build of Bull Centaurs. Obviously the 10 point upgrade for S6 GWs is a poor choice against T3 + no armour save Witch Elves.

    Up next we'll see how those Witches fare against Bull Centaurs with HW&S and AHW!

    upload_2021-8-23_1-36-44.png
     
    Lizards of Renown and Imrahil like this.
  15. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    77,508
    Likes Received:
    248,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And a fun little bonus match I had calculated a while back, but never posted...

    *corrected*
    upload_2021-9-5_16-39-19.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
    Lizards of Renown and Imrahil like this.
  16. Imrahil
    Slann

    Imrahil Thirtheenth Spawning

    Messages:
    11,125
    Likes Received:
    23,840
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good, good!

    Grrr, Imrahil
     
    NIGHTBRINGER likes this.
  17. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,937
    Likes Received:
    32,868
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah, bull centaurs already have a solid strenght, i don't think GW does them a favor (if not in a limited amount of cases)
     
    Imrahil and NIGHTBRINGER like this.
  18. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

    Messages:
    10,817
    Likes Received:
    26,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hooray! :D
     
    Imrahil and NIGHTBRINGER like this.
  19. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    77,508
    Likes Received:
    248,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Definitely not in this matchup. :p

    The GW option has always been my "go to" choice when including Bull Centaurs in a general list. It definitely makes them a hammer in search of a nail (armour and toughness), but leaves them exposed in other matchups. It will be interesting to see how hand weapon & shield and AHW builds fare across a range of matchups.

    Obviously the composition of the rest of the army will play a huge part in dictating what build to utilize. Chaos Dwarfs only have so many units that are capable of reliably punching trough armour/toughness (GW Infernal Guard, Destroyer, GW Bull Centaurs). I feel that the Fireborn's and Ironsworn's S5 is usually insufficient for the task.
     
    Lizards of Renown likes this.
  20. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    77,508
    Likes Received:
    248,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    [​IMG]
     
    Lizards of Renown and Imrahil like this.

Share This Page