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8th Ed. Successful Swarmings?

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Lizards of Renown, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Right, as advised, I’m making my various subjects of questions into multiple threads.

    Soooooooo..........

    Has anybody had any success with using swarms? If so, in what capacity and what was the context.

    Tarpit? Sacrifice? Etc.
     
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  2. Warden
    Slann

    Warden Tenth Spawning

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    I have used them as sacrificial tarpits.

    They are "relatively" cheap, to the point where I never expect them to survive past their first engagement. I have used them right out in front of a more valuable target (say, a small unit of cold-one knights) to accept the enemy charge, and then have the cavalry come around and smash into the flank. Has been very effective in the past.

    Plus I loved converting some up out of cheap materials, so there was that too.
     
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  3. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Nice.

    Was not a tactic I had thought of, so definitely food for thought!
     
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  4. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    I'm not a fan of them. I think they are one of our weakest choices.
     
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  5. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Fair enough.

    Have you had ANY success? Like not even the granting poisoned attacks to another unit in same combat?
     
  6. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Nope. I never field them.

    If you want to have some fun with them, cast Okkam's Mindrazor on them.
     
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  7. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    :D:eek:o_O

    I may field them just to do that and see if I can pull it off.
     
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  8. airjamy
    Terradon

    airjamy Well-Known Member

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    Never thought they were any good, i actually can't think of any swarms that are good in this edition.. at all. The Tomb Kinks swarms were i guess kind off ok when they could deploy in It Came From Below and charge the turn they came out, but since they can no longer charge in the 8th edition book when they popped out they became terrible. And even in 7th it was the Tomb Scorpion who made best use out of It Came From Below.

    I do like how they tried to tweak the rules a bit by giving other units poisoned attacks when they are fighting alongside them, but i think they are just not that effective, and easily killed if they are a problem. They are also just so slow.. without having the power of a block of infantry to mitigate that slowness.

    Okkams mindrazor on them sounds hilarious though!
     
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  9. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Yeah...

    So you've never used them successfully?
     
  10. airjamy
    Terradon

    airjamy Well-Known Member

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    Nope, i have never. Fielded them once or twice maybe, and both times they just died to arrows. Not having a save kills them imho.
     
  11. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Right. Shame really.
     
  12. airjamy
    Terradon

    airjamy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah i agree! They should have been stronger. I think that giving them a save, or a rule like that gives enemies -1 or -2 to hit them in CC due to them being tiny hard to hit bugs would have been reasonable. I think it is pretty weird that arrow fire is so strong against them, i would not think firing like 10 arrows in a massive swarm of bugs would actually harm them so much, but here we are :p
     
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  13. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Yeah...

    Anyways, maybe TOW will give us an edge. Feel pretty fatalistic about it being a complete flop, but there's always hope.
     
  14. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    [​IMG]

    I have used swarms successfully* once. Note my success requires an asterisk.

    I was playing with a friend and we had an informal agreement that we were both trying to play fun unorthodox lists neither of were bringing our most competitive list. He was playing Orcs and Goblins.

    I don't remember which unit I was stalling but I was able to stall a big unit with two swarms one in front of the other.

    Orc unit hit unit hit the swarm. Beat the swarm. Overran into the second swarm. Couldn't overrun again. Also, via positioning the unit was now in a river and could not march to get out.

    This cost me two swarms to pull off and required a lot of luck and a friendly match up but I was able to effectively keep a big unit out of the main fight for most of the game. By the time the unit got out of the river and marched to main battlefield, it was too late to help any of the battles that counted.

    Think of this as the exception that proves the rule.

    Every other time I've used a swarm, even with an Ark of Sotek Bastiladon, even in casual games, my swarms never earn their points value.

    Usually they get obliterated and overran or they if it's a multi unit melee they are just wiped out and this knocks down the CR of the other fighting unit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  15. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Thanks for your experience on that. Such a shame really, you'd think just reading the rules that they'd have great potential to do.... I don't know... SOMETHING.

    Ah well.

    They get relegated to the useless category.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2020
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  16. Karnus
    Razordon

    Karnus Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone done the full Ark of sotek, Jungle swarms and Tehenhauin combo? can anyone report how it fares?
     
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  17. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    No, but I don't think I'd ever try that. Way too squishy. You'd bleed combat resolution like CRAZY with T2 and no save swarms and because they are Skirmishers you get no rank bonus...

    Seems like a no-brainer to me...

    Perfectly happy to have someone tell me how they've used it successfully (which is along the lines of why I started this thread), but so far no dice as the saying goes (pun fully intended).
     
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  18. Karnus
    Razordon

    Karnus Well-Known Member

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    I get that on their own they are a bit weak, but is there any merit in them giving other units poisonous attacks?

    Sending a single swarm in with a block of Saurus for example? Or with a skink cohort? “Free” poisonous attacks must be worth it?
     
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  19. Warden
    Slann

    Warden Tenth Spawning

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    I bet they would be good doing a flank charge to support some Kroxigors, give them extra value for those high strength hits. Mostly because they move so fast.
     
  20. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    The problem is that they have to survive in order to confer their poison attacks bonus unto our unit. They are just so squishy, that a small unit is likely dead before we get to attack with our abysmal initiative and a larger unit is just a waste of points. Plus, as @Lizards of Renown pointed out, they bleed combat resolution.

    In terms of Kroxigor, they are already going to be wounding on 2's, so it would only give them a very small boost. In such a case, I'd rather spend the swarm points on more Kroxigor!
     
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