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7th Ed. Wondering what your view on Kroxies are.

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Xtoalz, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. Xtoalz
    Skink

    Xtoalz New Member

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    I am a bit new to Lizardmen and I am trying to figure out what to do with Kroxigores and skinks.

    I wanna have my Kroxies join the skinks, because of ranks/banner and anti-shooting.

    But my problem is that I see with Games workshop that 3 kroxies join 24 skinks (making it a 8-man wide rank)

    Isnt it better to deploy a max of 2 Kroxies with 16 skinks? then you will get a 6by4 unit.

    Whats your point of view about this?
     
  2. Aparach
    Troglodon

    Aparach New Member

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    I agree, skink/kroxigor units is better of as small units with 1-2 kroxigor than anything bigger.
    Personally I think there are better choises. They kind of falls inbetween saurus units, who are rock hard and aa effective death-trapp, and CoR, who have better mobility and work better as a hammer..
    That been said, I have never really tried the skink/kroxies in this edition, so shouldn't talk too loud I guess ;)
     
  3. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

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    If static combat res was worth more than it is now, they might be a more viable choice. I think the best use I've found for them is a single krox with some skink support. Basically a flanking infantry block. The big problem is the skinks are T2 5+ armor, which means it will be very easy for the enemy to charge right through the front of the block. If you go 2 or more kroxigors, you get to be too wide to be a flanking unit, and even with more kroxigors, you will have a very poor anvil unit. This becomes an easily breakable and expensive block.

    They could make a good support unit for a stegadon army. The stubborn stegs pin the enemy (where saurus usually would) and then you flank them with a kroxigor surrounded by 21 skinks and full command. This is still an under 200 point unit. The trouble is, you have to even be careful about what enemies you flank charge, as the highly killable skinks might give a net loss of combat res from back attacks. You can only hope your kroxigor doesn't whiff on the charge.

    Lately I'm leaning away from them and more toward units of 10 skinks ranked up.
     
  4. Revered_Guardian
    Troglodon

    Revered_Guardian New Member

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    personally im not even sure if skinks would be worth it ranked up... they are just so effective as skirmishers already (for example one unit of skinks tied the game for me by kiling a skaven chieftan and waplock engineer in the 2nd last turns of the game)
     
  5. strewart
    OldBlood

    strewart Well-Known Member

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    I think ranked skinks are good.. They are a bit cheaper, and remember that ranked units can negate enemy ranks if you flank/rear charge while skirmishers can't. This puts the ranked ones in a different league to skirmishing ones.

    But as to the original topic, I haven't actually used kroxigors yet so I cannot give a practical point of view. I think their reduction to s6 hurts them a lot, since they can no longer autokill chariots, even though a few of them will still beat most chariots pretty easily.

    Really, the best use I see is to put one in a flanking unit of skinks to make them immune to fear. There is so much fear running around these days that the ability to get a bunch of strong attacks (just a bonus really) and grant the weak skinks immunity to fear is decent. They are still a lot of points though..
     
  6. Vagrant Benthos
    Skink

    Vagrant Benthos New Member

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    I'm not a huge fan of the mixed units, but if I wanted to use them I would probably go for the single kroxigor and small number of skinks (obviously enough to meet the minimum). As a flank attacker they can nullify the rank bonus of the unit you have pinned in place and they aren't likely to face a lot of return attacks. I would however leave the banner at home though. Your just asking to give up 100 extra VP if the unit gets overrun and I think that will always be a possibility with the mixed units.

    As for Kroxigors in general, I think the drop in strength hurt them significantly. Not that Str 6 isn't good, its just that they have lost the threat of auto-killing chariots. Your only likely to hit with 50% of your attacks and against a fairly average toughness of 5 on chariots you are only wounding 66% of the time. I don't count those as particular awesome odds at dropping a chariot, especially if you get charged. Also with a toughness of 4 and 4+ save they aren't particularly resistant to incoming fire. Finally they are competing for Special Slots with options I think are better over all: Saurus Cav, Temple Guard, Terradons, Stegadons, etc. If they where toughness of 5 I would like them better. If they were still strength of 5 I would like them better. If they cost fewer points I would like them better. But, as it is they have just lost most of their appeal to me. Which is a pity since I really like the big simple brutes.
     
  7. ACe
    Saurus

    ACe New Member

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    Skink + kroxigor units are cheap, fast and a very effective flank support for saurus units or a streight-forward running pre-striking force. By using skink blocks you can get kroxigors into battle as core choices (which, I think is very important in the new book).

    Even though I'm sad about the -3pts -1S, I still often use kroxigors with some skinks to form units of 3 ranks ( 1 kroxigor + 11 skinks, no banners, maybe a musician). Sometimes my army core is made from 3-4 units like this. With a little over 300 you can get 3 fast and hard hitting units. Your enemy probably won't concentrate much fire on these units for they are too 'weak', but sooner or later he is going to aim his guns at them, saving you more important troops or feel the kroxigors great weapon up his ass.
     
  8. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

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    I think I'm going to follow your lead, this sounds like the perfect unit setup. Originally I thought about throwing a banner in and going for maximum CR, but I think you are right it is better to keep them cheap. Putting a banner in makes them actually worth the enemy investing a big unit to clobber it. On the other end of the spectrum you have the simple unit of 10 ranked skinks, but the enemy won't divert any of his firepower to these because they don't pose much threat.

    I'll probably still take some skirmisher skinks to serve a different role, but any mixed units will probably be 11 skinks plus one kroxigor. It will be a sort of heavy detachment flanker.

    Plus I imagine these units as being great for tackling things that need just a little "punch", like dwarf shooters or the enemy's fast flankers. If the enemy wants to divert cannon or bolt thrower shots at the unit to try to take out the kroxigor, that is one less shot fired at my EotG.

    Good idea ACe.
     
  9. DonkeyHotep
    Temple Guard

    DonkeyHotep New Member

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    Krozigors are amazing in Mordheim :p They use halberds so they don't strike last and have 3 HP, so even on a crit they don't die, and causing fear and having armor is pretty sweet in that system. Unfortunately they count as animals and never gain any XPerience, which makes me sad that you can't have hero Kroxigor.
     
  10. Craken
    Carnasaur

    Craken Well-Known Member

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    Me too I always wanted a Kroxigor hero, which was what made me sad in the new edition lizardmen book, I was hoping for a Krox hero option and Nakai the Wanderer. However the Krox are sweet in mordheim though as you said would be far more fun if they could lvl.
     
  11. jormi_boced
    Ripperdactil

    jormi_boced New Member

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    I am not sure about kroxigors now. I think they were good last edition, but I am not sure with the strength reduction. Also, I think the mixed unit just gives you the worst of both worlds instead of allowing the units to function normally.
     
  12. sirhuma
    Jungle Swarm

    sirhuma New Member

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    What about running the skinks 2 or 3 wide with 1 krox in 2nd and 3rd rows then skinks to fill in the rest. I know there will be no rank bonus, hopefully the main unit will have ranks. All I want them for is flankers With the narrow front there will be fewer strikes back at me that way I keep my numbers longer so they won't have the rank bonus. Plus if I kill one that adds to the combat res.
     
  13. strewart
    OldBlood

    strewart Well-Known Member

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    That might actually be a very good idea... Shrink the frontage as much as possible. The problem would be the unit would be longer so tougher to manouvre and bigger flanks. Still, the krox should be able to kill a few and reduce attacks back.

    On the other hand, since you need to maximize, with corner to corner if you are 3 across there are still potentially 5 that can attack you, which is a a whole unit anyway. Maybe against models on 25mm bases instead of 20.
     
  14. sirhuma
    Jungle Swarm

    sirhuma New Member

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    I think it would work better against heavy cav.(blood knights,chaos knights) The unit would be longer which would be the biggest draw back.
     
  15. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

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    The narrowest you could do would be four skinks wide, because kroxigors need to have skinks on both sides of them. I've thought about doing minimal sized units with a krox surrounded by 10 skinks only four wide, but it only takes 11 skinks and a kroxigor to get 3 ranks of 5 across. It's not much wider for +2 combat res, and still pretty darn cheap.
     
  16. asrodrig
    Carnasaur

    asrodrig New Member

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    I haven't used mixed units yet, but the feedback I've heard from them is generally mixed, so I'm definitely going to give them a try pretty soon. My initial reaction was I thought it was pretty sweet. Then a bunch of people told me they were crap. Now I'm hearing they're not too shabby. So the only way i'll know for sure whether or not they fit my playing style is if I actually get out and use them
    :D
     
  17. sirhuma
    Jungle Swarm

    sirhuma New Member

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    Why do they have to be surrounded? Say you are useing 1 krox why would you need 4 skinks? Couldn't you use 2 skinks in the front row? That way the krox size isn't bigger than the front row. It would be the same size. That in it's self would be a long unit. Very hard to move. I guess am over looking something just point me where to look so I can show other people. All the Liz book says that I see is that the Krox's row can't be larger than the front.
     
  18. Revered_Guardian
    Troglodon

    Revered_Guardian New Member

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    I say kroxies are majorly weak for their job now... if u take em at all do it without skinks so that the opponent dont get free cr. But ScoR accomplish the same thing but are still cheaper
     
  19. didleoman
    Chameleon Skink

    didleoman New Member

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    its an 8:1 ratio of skinks and kroxies and you need a minimum of 10 skinks to form the unit so it usually ends up have skinks surrounding the krox on all sides

    but as long as the ranks behind the first isn't larger then the ranks in the front you can make as long a chain as possible but the mixed unit usually has skinks lined up all around the krox to take advantage of the great reach rule
     
  20. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

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    I think you're right, I can't find it in the book either now. I guess because it shows it that way, and because the required 8 skinks is just enough to cover the front and sides. But the only rule limitation I see is that they need to be in the second rank. So in theory you could have a long chain of a unit with two skinks in front, a kroxigor, and eight skinks behind the krox.

    I agree that two-wide would be quite tricky to maneuver with, but maybe 3 wide? It would be 5 ranks deep and still pretty narrow. Still, say you charge the flank of a standard infantry block 5 ranks deep. They'd still be able to have five guys attacking skinks because of the corner attacks. It would make a more maneuverable unit though. Hmm...
     

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