Ive been talking to my friends who insist I'm OP and at the top of the tree in terms of power and balance in an army. So I looked up a few tiers for the warhammer armies and this is what my friends, myself and the wonderful internet think: Tier 1: Lizardmen. Vampire Counts. Deamons of Chaos Tier 2: Warriors of Chaos. High Elves. Skaven. Empire Tier 3: Brettonia. Dark Elves. Dwarves. Tier 4: Wood Elves Tier 5: Ogre Kingdoms. Beastmen. I Left out tomb kings and Orc's and Goblins because of the coming changes to them. Let me know what you guys think of our rank. Do you agree with the way I'm looking at things? Discuss!!!
It depends how there used, I know a wood elf player that can beat most armies quite easily for example. It all really depends on the general and how they build the list.
Dark Elves are pretty close to Tier 1. They lost some of their ability, but overall they are still up there. They can field an army strong in every phase and can definitely bring the heat. Daemons of Chaos and Vampire Counts are not nearly as good as they used to be. I would almost be inclined to put them down in Tier 2. They can still field good, competitive lists, but they are just not what they used to be. I would probably put Skaven in Tier 1 also, though their unpredictability makes them somewhat of a hazard sometimes. They are also quite strong in all phases so definitely can compete with the best. To me though, it really depends on the general. Tiers are somewhat useful, but eight edition really leveled the playing field on individual army strength.
and we HATE losing some of...their evil...bad bad evil abilities I think the Tier system has 2 flaws, as does comp'ing: 1: comp's are basically crutches to fight people USING crutches. Do I have an RoH in my book? yep. Do I use it every single game? Nope. Do I expect to be penalised for something that is SPECIFICALLY given by publishers (who have allegedly playtested every list since what, the 70's?) 2: Personal Preference dominates and influences trends in Regions. Sounds more complicated than it is. I saw a Comp list for a Sacramento Tourney and wondered how they actually GOT players to play there. It was intricate, and basically turned every Army book to swiss cheese. I went to San Jose- very different rules. Down to Monterey and Comps hadn't been implemented yet. Basically, I think it gives the game stores a Poor Sportsmanship mark. Judge an individuals army by their track record as an individual. The army itself is just a tool. You can't BLAME a saw for cutting, so why blunt it? I think it falls simply to Sten's discussion in Dragon Age: Tell me about your people? No. Why? They cannot be summarized for easy reference in the manner of:"The elves are a lithe, pointy eared people who excel at poverty." (Meaning that just because quite a few new players ONLY uses a Gunline doesn't mean all Dwarf armies are lame, or that the person wont grow past having cheese wins) (I for my part run Balanced as DElf, or lose wholesale lol)
Yeah I'd definitely go Skaven up 1, VC down at least 1 maybe 2, Dark Elves up 1. I'd say LM are in the top 4 or 5, they are a very solid list and it is easy to make a fairly strong and hard to beat army. They are also very balanced all round and not really overpowered. It depends on what you are taking in your army.
Definetley gets my vote. I've played 2 tournaments in 8th with my lizardmen, and i've yet to have a massively one sided game, having played daemons, DE, OK, Bretts, WoC, VC. there's never going to be 100% balance, but imo we're a lot closer now than in 7th. Regarding the OP's rankings, maybe it's just the players rather than the armies, but high elves seem to suck something awful, and ogres are no longer bottom tier. actually empire seem to do quite badly here as well, which frankly baffles me, i'm almost tempted to dig mine out...
As said before, weather or not an army is better, or in some cases, able to "Overcheese" the others are determined weather or not you are playing comped or uncomped lists. And how you comp them. That said. to my personal experience (I've had a few games with each army in 8th so far) facing "standard" comps or none at all, Skaven/WoC/Lizzies are the ones i've found to outperform the rest. (At 2k+) At smaller point brackets elves of all kinds do very well when played propperly. This is just my personal experience though. - And any general who knows what he's doing and has experince with 8thed should be able to bring all the armies to a competeable state - That's the beuty of 8th - *Balance*!
I think that High Elves definately need to move up to number one as do skaven. lizards in the top of number two and ogres need to move up to three. and vampires need to move down and posobly deamons as well.
OK should move up 1 or 2. i've seen OK armies that have placed pretty higher(top 5) in tourneys, granted ogres cost alot of points a piece and Purle Son(and spells like it) effect them more then others due to a low model count and few units. they still have stackable gut magic buffs and can chew through units pretty well. lower tier then others? yes. but the lowest? no.
alright, let us assume that there is absolutely NO comp whatsoever. The question then becomes, How many builds are there that can, not taking superior generalship or luck into account, compete at the highest level? With this thought in mind I believe we can truly come into a more . . . correct Tiered system. Lizardmen can make a highly competitive army out of just about anything in the book, therefor they go to level one. Brettonians are forced to resort to only a few optimal builds, therefor the go down to one of the lowest levels. I would say Skaven have lots of builds but they also have a lot of chaff in the book so they would be good around level 2 or so O&G, well right now they would be down near the bottom, they have too many units that are dependent on other things. WOC? I really don't know I've only played against them once and that was in 7th. Catch my drift people? I hope so cause I'm not 100% familiar with all the armies so I'll need some help with this.
First of all i believe that these systems are flawed. However if you were to make tiiers I dont think anything but the quality of the cheesiest possible list with an AB should be taken into acount. I dont think there is any good way to measure this but my experience says that the hardest armies to beat are LM, DE, Dwarves, WoC and Empire. This however is highly subjective and comes from a man with relatively litle experiene.
Being a high elf player myself, I'd say that they are top tier if, and only if, they use Teclis/Book of Hoeth or possibly with a Star Dragon in 2.5k+. Otherwise they're pretty middle-of-the-pack. So I'd put it something like this: Tier 1: HE w/ Teclis, WoC, LM, Empire, DE, DoC (flamers are still awesome. Horror blocks are gross). Tier 2: HE, VC, Dwarves, O&G, Brittonia, WE (w/ treeman and treekin spam), Beastmen (chariot spam. Heck, it won the masters!) Tier 3: Ogres, WE (without treekin spam), TK, Beastmen (without chariot spam)