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5th Ed. Discovery of an ancient warhammer book

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Discussion' started by Lizerd, Mar 17, 2019.

  1. Lizerd
    Chameleon Skink

    Lizerd Active Member

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    To make a quick story my dad when he was a wee lad got some warhammer and showed it to me recently. Guessing from the time and lore in it, it’s second edition about. The lore is bizarre. Slaan and lizardmen have zero connection, instead they are enemies. While vaguely resembles warhammer fantasy, it feels almost like a different game. The paints, miniatures, and battlefield were all different from what they are now and even in more recent editions of warhammer fantasy. On a darker note the book is also pretty offensive with “pigmy” human, (not going into more detail). My guess is that this is likely a crude 70s interpretation of Homo Floresiensis. Anyways still a pretty interesting insight on what warhammer used to be.

    Please note, I had to put 5th ed as there was no 2nd ed tag
     
  2. Killer Angel
    OldBlood

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    are you talking about this one?

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Skar-Veteran

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

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    Indeed - I have a copy of the 3rd Edition rulebook that continued this - the Slann are much the same as the current lore (albeit much slimmer and more active with their own civilisation) while Lizardmen were primitive reptilian troglodytes that existed before the Slann arrived. Also, right up to and including 5th Edition the standard was to have much brighter colour schemes for Fantasy - it was only 6th Edition that brought on a more muted, grimdark aesthetic to the game.
     
  4. Lizerd
    Chameleon Skink

    Lizerd Active Member

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    @Killer Angel yep that exact one

    @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl pretty fascinating how the game has changed. The troglodyte seem a lot like the kroxigors, simple and very very large. I might actually try this out.
     
  5. pendrake
    Skar-Veteran

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    In Ghostbusters there is a scene where Bill Murray has this great line, “Good guess, but wrong”.

    I can’t even say this is a good guess:
    You have a book that was published in the 1970s (20th Century). Homo Floresiensis was discovered in the 21st Century.

    You can’t always trust Wikipedia but this snippet is correct:
    Poor taste and offensive, sure, but not the people they were caricaturing.
     
  6. Lizerd
    Chameleon Skink

    Lizerd Active Member

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    Fair enough. Thanks for pointing out my error.
     
  7. Tk'ya'pyk
    Skink

    Tk'ya'pyk Member

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    Weren't those pygmies part of the Orc and Goblin army at the time? I vaguely recall a story snippet from an old White Dwarf issue when they released the new (at the time) goblin wolf chariots: "They're coming! They're coming!" "Wot? Not more zogging pig-a-mees?!?" "No, da chariots!"
     
  8. Lizerd
    Chameleon Skink

    Lizerd Active Member

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    It didn’t seem like it. Old warhammer was weird.
     
  9. gb2098
    Skink

    gb2098 Member

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    specifically it was (incredibly racist) caricature of these ethnic groups.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Pygmies
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmy_peoples#African_Pygmies
     
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  10. pendrake
    Skar-Veteran

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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  11. Lizerd
    Chameleon Skink

    Lizerd Active Member

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    Oh dam, it’s worse than I thought. Yeah we probably shouldn’t go into more detail, that stuff is dark.
     
  12. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    Raising awareness of racism is never a bad thing, thankfully we do live in a better socially aware world these days, not always but mostly.
     
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  13. gb2098
    Skink

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    unfortunately there was a lot of racism behind the old adventure fiction where "pygmies" appear (they were a staple for a lot of african and lost island/continent/world stories), with the GW depictions being basically derived from said fiction. which is why they ended up far tinier than the real world ethnic groups (a common trope in the fiction), and having full on blackface appearance, complete with the exaggerated facial features. because those fictional accounts used the racist depictions of the time as their base. (many of said writers never even having seen africa before or even having spent much time with black people.)

    personally i'm glad they quietly dropped those old figures from the warhammer world.
     
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  14. Lizerd
    Chameleon Skink

    Lizerd Active Member

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    I really do appreciate the fact that I am allowed to nite this as the last time I did on a forum I got booted out on vague charges. The fact that warhammer used to do this but changed is a good sign.
    In all honesty I think most people are glad that the “pygmies” were dropped. They served no purpose from a game point and really were just down right offensive.
     
  15. pendrake
    Skar-Veteran

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    Once in a great while, a RetCon can be a good thing. Doesn’t happen often.
     
  16. pendrake
    Skar-Veteran

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    *** screeching noise as Pendrake derails thread in an attempt to get the train of thought back on the main track ***

    Tell us what was different about the paints and the battlefield:

    Enamel paints?
    Four foot X eight foot tabletops?

    Or are my guesses totally wrong...
     
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  17. Lizerd
    Chameleon Skink

    Lizerd Active Member

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    They appear be to acrylics, better than the cheapo ones you find today in art stores, but I’m 90% certain they have lead in them. The shades did not exist, ne did the terrain paints. However as they probably have lead, I give them a healthy distance

    *is that lead? Aeeeeeegggggg! *Jumps our window*
     
  18. pendrake
    Skar-Veteran

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    Acrylics with Lead? :confused: :cyclops:

    Does it mention a brand? What is making you think there was lead? (there probably was some in the minis!)
     
  19. Killer Angel
    OldBlood

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    well, regarding the battlefield... the models of buildings, fortresses and terrains evolved a lot, almost in the same way miniatures did.
     
  20. gb2098
    Skink

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    they used to have a book entirely of cardstock buildings, and having seen some white dwarf articles from the time, there was a lot more "junk built" terrain made using leftover soda cans and other such stuff in the 40k section. everything was a lot more basic and plain.

    though i miss the old articles about customization, complete with the codes for ordering the specific bitz. (i also miss the old bitz catalog)
     

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