1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. The April Poetry Contest has opened for voting! For more information, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

8th Ed. High Magic Analysis

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Shadoer, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. Shadoer
    Saurus

    Shadoer New Member

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ok so we have exactly the same High Magic as High Elves except we can swap out our spells for other spells in the Main Rulebook (Hurrah!). Let's just go over them really quick

    Drain Magic: 7+ Allows you to cancel out spell effects. Has an AOE option for 18" that can be cast at 14+

    Soul Quench: 8+ Stupidly good magic missile that comes in two sizes. 2D6 and 4D6 for 16+ casting costs.

    Apotheosis: 5+ Gives a wound to a character. Had a bigger version for 10+. Also will give the model fear for some reason

    Hand of Glory: 5+ Increase either your WS, BS, I, or Mov. Can do it all for 10+

    Walk Between Worlds: 8+ Makes a unit ethereal and it can move 10". There's a bigger version that's for 20" but it costs 16+. This is also our most valuable spell. If you trade this spell away for one in another lore, you had better have a very good reason.

    Tempest: 12+ Gives you a large template that scatters D6. It's basically a good mortar shot, except the target also losses -1 to hit for close combat and shooting as well.

    Arcane Unforging: 13+ Our second most valuable spell. It basically allows you to destroy a characters magic item (determined randomly) and cause a wound if you roll above it's Armor Save (just like lore of metal) Great to get rid of nasty magic surprises like the Ogre Kingdom Hellheart.

    Fiery Convocation: 19+ A remain in play spell that causes a Str4 hit against every model in the unit every magic phase till it's dispelled. Basically if you see a large unit of goblins or skaven that are fifty or even a hundred strong, this is the spell to remove them.


    Cool now there are some important things to note with these wonderful spells.

    The first is that we already have a bunch of magic missiles and direct damage spells in this mix. Soul Quench, Tempest, Arcane Unforging, and Fiery Convocation are all classified as magic missiles and direct damage. This means we can use telepathy to throw them through a Skink Priest This means with proper planning, all of these spells can be in range of enemy units on turn 1. So if you are using a Skink Priest with the Cloak of Feathers, keep this in mind.

    Also keep in mind that for switching out High Magic spells, these are the ones you cannot cast when you are in close combat. If you know the next round most of your units will get into close combat, just swap them out for something else. Switching these for buffs and hexes will make all the difference when close combat begins.

    Second is that most of our spells can be cast very cheaply. Drain Magic, Soul Quench, Apotheosis, Hand of Glory, and Walk Between Worlds can all be cast on just two dice with relative ease. Apotheosis and Hand of Glory in particular can be cast on 1D6 with a 2/3 chance of success. Basically, if you feel the need to go to another lore asap, these are the spells you should try spamming. Even if you end up with only say 5 dice in your magic phase, you can try casting two of these spells on two dice each and the last one on a single D6.

    Third, our most powerful spells are Walk Between Worlds and Arcane Unforging.

    Walk Between Worlds allows you to blitz things into great positions across the board, relatively easily. Since many of our units are slow, this is our best way to sent up a flank or rear attack against the enemy army. Also, this is a great way to bail a solo Slann out of fix ASAP. Seriously, get this off and your Slann can scurry right across the board. In a magic phase, always keep this spell in mind. Don't trade it away for another spell unless you have a really really good reason.

    Arcane Unforging is our second most valuable spell, largely because it allows us to kill nasty magic items that can ruin our day. I think I said this a few times already, but I'll emphasis this again - if you are playing against Ogres, keep using this spell until that blasted Hellheart is destroyed. Seriously, that item can win the Ogres the day and this spell is our only way to stop it. Otherwise, try and get this off to eliminate enemy magic items. If you can guess the right target, you can knock out game changing items like Crown of Command with a nice roll. However this spell is tradable, unlike Walk Between Worlds.

    Finally, take note of which spells you only want to cast once per game and trade.

    Like Fiery Convocation, really if you have the casting dice to cast it, you really can only expect to get off once in a game and hope it stays there. You might as well then trade it out for something more useful. The same can apply to Arcane Unforging, after knocking down a magic item or two, there's really no reason to keep it especially when close combat starts.

    Anyways, hope this analysis is useful
     
    Sudaj and Scalenex like this.
  2. Shadoer
    Saurus

    Shadoer New Member

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Other thing I'm thinking with High Magic Swaps, is really Lore of Metal isn't a good lore to swap into. Really by the time we swap a bunch of spells we want buffs and hexes. This means that Shadow, Beasts, Light, and Life are the Lores we should be switching too most.
     
  3. Mahtis
    Cold One

    Mahtis New Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "You got cavalry and/or monstrous cavalry? They have 1+/2+ AS? Well, I cast this useless spell and forget it to get searing doom, I'll wound your cavalry and monstrous cavalry on a 2+ no as allowed"

    This on signature makes at least one spell worth forgetting to get one from metal, if facing something with high AS, what better way to counter high AS than turning it against themselves ^^
     
  4. Shadoer
    Saurus

    Shadoer New Member

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Fair enough. I'm just thinking it might be better, aside from some notable exceptions, to start going after buffs hexes that will help in Close Combat.

    Then again you might be on to something, both Lore of Beasts and Lore of Heavens have buffs and hexes that would help a lot in close combat that we can swap into easily without having to focus on rolling in a single Lore.

    So I could cast off things like Soul Quench, Fiery Convocation, and Tempest in the first couple of magic phases and then grab the Sig Spells of Metal, Heavens, and Beasts for the buff/hexes needed to prevail in the Close Combat melees that will be turn 3 and turn 4.
     
  5. Dyvim Tvar
    Razordon

    Dyvim Tvar New Member

    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Walk between worlds is a great way to make up for the fact that Sallies can no longer March and shoot.
     
    Scalenex likes this.
  6. The Red Devil
    Troglodon

    The Red Devil Defender of Hexoatl Staff Member

    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    673
    Trophy Points:
    93
    This might be a stupid question but for the "Walk between worlds" spell, does this mean you can move the unit X" right away if you successfully cast the spell, or that they can move X" in the next movement phase?
     
  7. Shadoer
    Saurus

    Shadoer New Member

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    They move right away :)

    You can't go right through the enemy, but you can do something like perfectly position a Stegadon right on the flank or a Salamander on the Flank for a perfect flaming blast.
     
  8. aidanlynch
    Saurus

    aidanlynch New Member

    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If Apotheosis and Hand of Glory can be cast on 5+ then the chance of successfully casting on one dice would be 1/3, not 2/3?

    I could be wrong, probability is not my strong point!
     
  9. THE_LAIR
    Saurus

    THE_LAIR New Member

    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Don't forget the Lvl 4 wizard bonus! ;)
     
  10. eppe
    Kroxigor

    eppe New Member

    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Walk Between Worlds may have just become that must cast spell if what I'm thinking works.

    From my understanding once we are ethereal only magic attacks hurt us and all our attacks are magic. So for the 1 round of combat this is on you you're going to take almost no losses and no matter what your against, I'm looking at you VC ethereal spam, you're gonna hit back.
     
  11. hdctambien
    Terradon

    hdctambien Active Member

    Messages:
    579
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    28
    You're only ethereal until the end of the phase :-/
     
  12. The Red Devil
    Troglodon

    The Red Devil Defender of Hexoatl Staff Member

    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    673
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Interesting point.

    hdctambien: I assume you mean until our next magic phase right?
     
  13. hdctambien
    Terradon

    hdctambien Active Member

    Messages:
    579
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Unfortunately, the spell says:

    So, you can use this spell to move through terrain and objects (not units) and if there are any effects on them that would keep them from moving those effects are ignored.

    But you don't get to keep Ethereal outside the scope of the current magic phase. Spells are pretty consistent with their spells saying "until the next Magic Phase" when that is the case but this spell says "until the end of the phase"
     
  14. oreaper
    Jungle Swarm

    oreaper New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    interesting thing on WbtW is the use for Terradons, T1 rock drop and in yer face pew pew pew, with a warmachine threat.........yes plz
     
  15. The Red Devil
    Troglodon

    The Red Devil Defender of Hexoatl Staff Member

    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    673
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Thanks for clarifying hdctambien, sitting here waiting on my book. Hopefully it will arrive sooner than later, as its frustrating not being able to read it for myself :)
     
  16. hdctambien
    Terradon

    hdctambien Active Member

    Messages:
    579
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Yeah, Terradons turn WbtW into a non-magic missle!
     
  17. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

    Messages:
    611
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Which means if you use the movement to fly over an enemy with terradons and drop rocks, those rocks become magical, as they are from an ethereal unit.

    Just keep that in the back of your mind when you have to face hexwraiths or spirit hosts.

    -Matt
     
    Scalenex likes this.
  18. Walgis
    Ripperdactil

    Walgis New Member

    Messages:
    409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    you get ethereal just for moving, whn you done your move your not ethereal.
    Question you can swap spell what you casted or any spell any time?
    The other question about rip spell if i cast it and forget it does it still work??
     
  19. OmegaHavoc
    Cold One

    OmegaHavoc Member

    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    The unit gains ethereal for the entire phase, not just until it is done moving.
     
  20. jamierk
    Jungle Swarm

    jamierk New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Walk between worlds is great for taking out mangler squigs and fanatics. Both of which won't harm the unit they touch.
     

Share This Page