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8th Ed. I need some help with orcs

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Temekoku giant-slayer, Sep 16, 2015.

  1. Temekoku giant-slayer
    Skink

    Temekoku giant-slayer New Member

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    Hello, this is one of my first posts on this sight and I want to get straight to the point, I need some help dealing with Orcs. This is the army I mostly play against, usually the same player, and I have never won, EVER. Usually I go in with 3 blocks of 20 or 25 saurus warriors, HUGE skink screen (he's big on fanatics;)) and an assortment of other goodies. Normally, it goes quite well until I run in to his epic super mega unit of black orcs that has an amazing orc leader in it (I forget his name), and he OWNS me:eek:. Nothing I've tried seems to work, any ideas, please? All help is appreciate.:)
     
  2. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    I recommend a Slann with Focus of Mystery. You can use Walk Between Worlds to give units ethereal for an out of phase move. When they are ethereal they can walk through Goblin Fanatics with no damage. In addition you can peg the Black Orc leader (I'm guessing it's Grimgor Ironhide) with Arcane Unforging. You take away his magic items and he's a lot less scary.

    For a non-magical solution, skirmishers are a decent anti-Fanatic tool. Typically, if you trigger three Fanatics, one will self destruct, one will go down to Skink shooting, and the third will hit the Skirmishers. For more detailed anti Fanatic strategies, give this a look.

    You probably want to use Contemplations to swap out spells, you want to take Metal and pick up Searing Doom (the signature spell) to soften up the Black Orc block as a whole (though Searing Doom won't help against non Black Orcs).

    A lone Slann with Higher State of Consciouness can kill Fanatics with impunity by floating into them. If you keep him away from the big blocks, he's pretty safe. Doom Divers and other O&G artillery can't hurt ethereals at all.

    I don't know what your whole tabletop situation looks like, but I'm guessing that two Saurus blocks of 30 will outperform 3 blocks of 20. That gives you staying power and maneuverability.

    If you opponent uses a lot of rock lobbers, Ancient Stegadons would be a liability. But if there is relatively little hard hitting artillery, Ancient Steggies would be great for one-two punches alongside Saurus Warriors blocks.

    Check out the general Orc and Goblin tactica if you haven't already done so.
     
  3. rantapanda
    Kroxigor

    rantapanda Member

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    Indeed Focus Of Mystery with the Slann. He can just sit in a skink bunker for safety. Fiery Convocation just devastates black orcs. Get some terradons and skinks to fetch the fanatics, manglers and warmachines. Arcane unforging to soften up Grimgor. 3x tanky OB with great weapons on a coldone riders bus to mop whats left. Regular Co,GW,Armour of destiny, dawnstone, other trickters shard build works against most characters. Not quite sure what kind of guy grimgor is but anyways.
     
  4. Gary_M
    Temple Guard

    Gary_M Active Member

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    Wouldn't a salamander or two work here too, particularly against the non-black orc blocks?
    My local club doesnt have many OnG players, but against one he focused on my sallies ahead of everything else, meaning rest of the lizards could be more pro-active.
     
  5. Temekoku giant-slayer
    Skink

    Temekoku giant-slayer New Member

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    Thanks for the advice! I have tried the slann before, but he only got fiery convocation off on the last turn, but it almost wrecked the unit. He's a good player, he knows to keep his black orcs safe until they charge (straight at my slann), and he boggs down my OB with snotlings. The heighest scoring unit I had consisted of 10 skinks, (they took out a snotling pump wagon, and then a giant in cc:), one of my better moments.) I haven't tried a heavy monster build yet, maybe that would work? I'm not very good at positioning slamanders, (they look big and scary, so got shot up.)
     
  6. Crowsfoot
    Skink Priest

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

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    I love reading your threads answers @Scalenex, I always imagine myself in the battle.;)
     
    ZeTe and airjamy like this.
  7. eron12
    Skink

    eron12 Member

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    A basic black orc has a 5+ armor save, S and T 4, and one attack. They can pay for a shield, or go two hand weapons or a great weapon. Temple guard equal or exceed everything except the great weapon, where the temple guard get two S 5 attacks compared to one S 6. Yes black orcs with hatred will hurt more but not that much. Maybe what you need is a fighty character in the block to take on grimgor, be a cause your troops should be able to handle his troops.
     
  8. Temekoku giant-slayer
    Skink

    Temekoku giant-slayer New Member

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    Grimgor buffs the black orcs, and he takes things that give the entire unit armour piercing and +1 armour. Despite being a 'magicy' race, we have few ward saves. Getting a fighty character is a good idea, as long as he is not blocked.
     
  9. eron12
    Skink

    eron12 Member

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    I'm not sure how the who units armor is improving, but the razor standard would give the unit armor piercing. Grimgor gives them hatred and an extra point of weapon skill, which will cause them to do more damage, especially in the first round. Even so, strength five is better than strength four armor piercing. What size units are we talking about?
     
  10. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    How many points does your opponent typically invest in the Black Orc + Grimgor unit?
     
  11. Temekoku giant-slayer
    Skink

    Temekoku giant-slayer New Member

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    He usually has a unit of about 25 + Grimgor, plus the standard, (It is razor standard) and shields. I'm not sure exactly how much that is because I don't have access to his army book right now, but over 500pts.
     
  12. Temekoku giant-slayer
    Skink

    Temekoku giant-slayer New Member

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    By armour piercing, I meant ignores armour.
     
  13. rantapanda
    Kroxigor

    rantapanda Member

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    Basicly your win condition is fiery convocation on the black orcs and arcane unforging on grimgor.
    Before that just chaff the unit as much as you can.
    When the unit is diminished enough, you can go for the kill either with a kitted OB,CO bus or TG horde with buffs.
    You could do double slann, high magic and light magic for fiery convo and light buffs (WS 10, I 10, ASF, etc).
    Or you could go High Magic slann and Kroak for that -1 to hit and unbreakable. Swap a spell for Iceshard blizzard and do hand of glory as well and suddenly black orcs need sixes to hit. (you can also keep your slann in the TG unit for safety, make sure you put Kroak in the unit last in the deployment phase. take 1-2 OB:s there as well. You can even challenge grimgor with Kroak which is hilarious, T5, W6 and 3+ ward rocks, while rest of the lizzies churn out combat res)
     
    Temekoku giant-slayer likes this.
  14. Temekoku giant-slayer
    Skink

    Temekoku giant-slayer New Member

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    That is actually one of the best ideas yet! :)Its good, it works, and there's almost nothing he can do about it. Love it.
     
  15. rantapanda
    Kroxigor

    rantapanda Member

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    Just watch out for slann miscasting and blowing up half the tg.
     
  16. themuffinman873
    Chameleon Skink

    themuffinman873 Member

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    Just a single light Slann works really well. I had one match against OnG where I was in tatters, and just decided to play out my last turn before throwing in the towel. A 10TG charge with 2 light spells later I had crushed his Orc horde.
    I would take the forbidden staff for this strategy as it helps ensure that you will have at least one superior magic phase.

    Use terradons to bait out those fanatics. Unless his NG block is far from everything else you can come within 8" to force out fanatics while behind some kind of terrain or even one of his units. It is a bit cheesy imo to do this and will make for a grumpy OnG player.

    I think Saurus < Orcs, esp since Saurus get crushed during that first round of Orc choppas. With buffs involved, the equation changes dramatically.
     
    Temekoku giant-slayer likes this.
  17. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Ignore the unit, chaff the unit and limit its impact. Then use the rest of your forces to take out his other stuff. A pricey unit can be a huge detriment even if it isn't killed but simply neutralized. You should be able to win the chaff war, so use that to your advantage.
     
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  18. ZeTe
    Saurus

    ZeTe Member

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    i second this , love the advice on this site. makes me wanna play a game everyday lol
     
  19. ZeTe
    Saurus

    ZeTe Member

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    what about chatax in the unit of TG and challenge the shit out of him if he refuses he can't attack with grimmer right? plus and unsaved wounds give you a cheaper arcane unforging. i used this idea on my friends vampire blender because he couldn't refuse a challenge like chatax work a treat. i haven't had the pleasure of an OnG fight yet but I'm thinking it would work just as well (so you would have your slann, chatax, x tg & full command ) pretty beefy unit if you ask me plus you can give a magic banner to TG (i always run razor) and your B.S.B. from your slann(i usually run terror when I'm not fighting undead).

    p.s. i know this post is probably as old as the great old ones themselves but i thought i would comment anyway incase you are still having problems with OnG :D
     
  20. protector
    Temple Guard

    protector Active Member

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    Grimgor is a beast, Chakax would get pulped by him first round, although he may cause a wound or two it is highly doubtful he could take him and would probably die before being able to hit.

    Kroak with an OB that is wearing glittering scales and he needs 5's to hit, with a good ward save you can make it out, armor save is meaningless as he reduces 1+ to nothing. High S attacks on OB and you can probably take him, other than that I second the idea of limiting the unit with movement, also take one larger unit of saurus, that is seriously better than two medium units.
     

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