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Tutorial Ixt's Unit Formations

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Ixt, Jul 17, 2015.

  1. Ixt
    Terradon

    Ixt Well-Known Member

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    Welcome, @Lug, to Lustria Online!

    Truthfully, I hadn't seen that warscroll yet! I'd noticed many mentions of "6 or more," which originally tipped me off to modifiers taking rolls higher than their natural bounds. It's nice to have some direct evidence! Thank you for the heads up. :D

    If you plan on sticking around, be sure to drop a line in the Introductions section, maybe host some images of your painted models or conversions, or have a go in Lustria's short story contest. Also, feel free to add any formations/tactics that you're willing to share to this thread, or anywhere within the AoS Tactics subforum.

    Thanks again for the compliment! Here's your inaugural 'like!' :cool::cat::angelic:
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
  2. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Have you though about making a tight formation of Spear Saurus surrounded by temple guard ?

    GGGGGG
    GSSSSSG
    GSSSSSG
    GSSSSSG
    GGGGGG

    The spear Saurus have a longer reach IRC.
    so they should be able to attack over the temple guards shoulders,
    making for a great offensive and defensive combo. :D
     
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  3. Ixt
    Terradon

    Ixt Well-Known Member

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    I like the sound of that! Putting a couple of those small, pointy units in staggered forward positions could make for a pretty tough vanguard, especially if there's an Oldblood with a spear (or some other character) in the second rank. Even a Slann would do very well in there, given its 3" melee range and many attacks. Makes the TG very hardy, and even hardier with Mystic Shield.

    That's tough to approach, unless outnumbered. :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
  4. Slanputin
    Carnasaur

    Slanputin Well-Known Member

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    I love this thread.
     
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  5. Ixt
    Terradon

    Ixt Well-Known Member

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    Working on Saurus Cav combined with Flyers into a single formation now. By the numbers, it's very promising. The models look fantastic when ranked together.

    Lances are kind of odd, but they may be worth it. Ya might get a mortal wound, might not... depends on how many you can get base-to-base, because your second rank won't be getting any attacks. For now, I'm thinking Blades are the way to go. Not many attacks with either weapon, but the blades are more consistent. I just gotta optimize their footprint so that they can back up their menacing look with deadly efficiency.

    A Saurus OB/Cold One General could be pretty nice if you find that the cavalry is making up most of your army, especially if the Cav are fielded in a battalion (bonus attacks, after all). That's... 6 attacks per model altogether, rerolling 1s?

    A Scarnosaur could work as well, in that regard. With 5 attacks per model, the Scarnosaur may be the better choice, perhaps if only just for fielding lances. I haven't bothered with the math. Looks close, though.

    A Skink Chief General could do a number on your opponent, since the flyers will pack more punch than the Cav. That +1 to hit lasts in all phases. Also, remember: you can still field a lone Skink Chief on a flyer. You just use the Alpha/Master of the Skies profiles on the flyer pages. For now, it looks like the Skink Chief does take a bit of a hit to its wound count, however. Seems a bit odd to me. Might be a technical error on GW's part?

    Back to the point: it seems that the Cav/Flyer combo could very easily use the 'Hook' formation that I'd laid out previously. Saurus Cav charge the front corner of a unit if possible (head-on if necessary), Rippers fly around back and charge. That unit is probably toast.

    Not only can it not retreat, but the models are going to be split down the middle - halfish will need to move toward the Saurus, halfish toward the flyers. This is key for having a good Battleshock phase. It should go without saying that most infantry will never catch up if your Lizards opt for retreat. After all, they don't need to retreat together because they are separate units. The Saurus Cav can bounce somewhere else, and the flyers can pursue an entirely different direction (if need be).

    Then the other possibility: Saurus Cav charge chaff/screen and roadblock (if being defensive), Flyers could assail the unit being protected (if offensive).

    Up until the turn prior to their charge, they can march/move 14", so covering distance is no problem with them. If anything threatens the Saurus Cav on the march, the flyers can pop out and take it on with a charge. The Cav will be charge-ready in the following turn. Either way, this unit is very, very hard to approach. The Cav functions as a decent tarpit, and the flyers are simply vicious.

    Anyway, after I'm good and happy with maybe a couple more basic unit formations, it's then into... brigades..? regiments..? I don't know the term for separate units that work together. xD Basically, "how to get all your units to synergize and protect one another."

    I'm still trying to figure out a decent setup for receiving charges... as of right now, it's heavily, heavily influenced by the movement speed & distance of the opposing unit. Options open up at 7"+, to the point where your formation can basically counter-charge with a pile-in. If they get any closer, I suppose that it's best to deploy into a wide kite-like shape. If you're expecting charges, set up the board in an L-shape! If you fail to set up the board, then spread the board! Perimeters are *key.* Losing ground *is not a bad thing!* You'll gain it back, because your unit won't get mopped up due to being charged!
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
  6. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Ahh... Don't forget to include a Saurus Oldblood on Cold One

    Command Ability
    Savage Charge: The Oldblood spurs its
    Cold One towards the enemy and urges its
    kin to follow. If a Saurus Oldblood on Cold
    One uses this ability, then you can re-roll
    charge rolls and hit rolls of 1 for Saurus
    units within 8"
    . In addition, until your
    next hero phase this model and any Saurus
    Cavalry within 8" make an additional
    attack with their Cold Ones’ Vicious Bites
    .
     
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  7. Ixt
    Terradon

    Ixt Well-Known Member

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    Heh! Nice! I just edited my post. :) Pretty sweet when combined with The Hunter's Steed! +1 to charge, re-rolling 1s... yum.
     
  8. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Hmmm....
    Another thought, most of our dinos have at least a 2" range attack.

    Edit: and most have a ranged attack. ;)
     
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  9. Ixt
    Terradon

    Ixt Well-Known Member

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    And now, you know my love for fielding monsters as support (they're strong to begin with, and all of them may be buffed by a Skink Chief). ^_^ I only just saw that the Trog benefits from a 2" range at your mention, however... more reasons to like this thing, every day!

    8 damage 2 attacks in melee, D3 damage 2 attacks at range... when buffed by a Skink Chief, melee hits on 3s and wounds on 2s and 3s when fresh. Ranged hits on 2s, wounds on 3s. No rend, but... Yowza.

    Ranged attacks gets a wound, and you get +3" to your charge against that unit! +3"!!

    Throw in The Great Drake constellation or even a BSB... and...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
  10. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Skink shield might be the thing,
    with their disengage ability. (Wary Fighters)
     
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  11. Ixt
    Terradon

    Ixt Well-Known Member

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    Oh, absolutely. Skinks are incredible. I'm trying to work out contingencies for being charged. So far, I've found something interesting about the way units charge: they tend to move like water flowing downstream. With that in mind, I'm trying to reflect/build off of that notion with how I position my units-being-charged. I think that there's some insight to be gained there.

    Anyway, yes, Skinks are absolutely the way to go for screens. Two units of Skinks can pull off some hyperbolic double-fleeing use-the-force-luke shenanigans, no less, simply by being close-but-not-too-close in the event of being charged, although it is just better for them to charge and cause disruption. If you position them a certain way, your opponent's unit will start getting pulled out of whack... and then you just leave combat asap. This could really disrupt your opponent's movement phase, because so much movement will have to go back to establishing 1" coherency.

    With a Stegadon nearby, Skinks can move D6" in the hero phase. They can move 8" in the movement phase, or [basically] move D6" in the shooting phase by running. They can charge 2D6" in the charge phase. In the combat phase, they can move another 8" by disengaging, and be ready to move again in the following turn. Holy crap - talk about mobility.

    Anyway, I'm still playing around with this stuff, fine-tuning, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2015
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  12. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    I did see a trick in youtube, where I guys was using single models, to tarpit a bit scary unit,
    Basicity after he charges the first unit have a second just out of reach, so that he will be tempted to
    pile in on it during the next combat phase, (swarms might be good for this). he also had a ranged unit
    nearby, to harass the the big monster while it was being tarpited.
     
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  13. Ixt
    Terradon

    Ixt Well-Known Member

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    Yes! Very similar, indeed. Keep those models or units juuuuust close enough, and you can have a field day with your opponent. Sounds like he was using the same strategy. Skinks, however, make this strategy ridiculously more efficient since they can leave combat.
     
  14. KingCheops
    Temple Guard

    KingCheops Active Member

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    Looks good. Just need to amend it a bit in the case of your opponent forcing you to charge so you need 1 extra turn to set up an attack. Basically if you are getting the charge you want to push those TG forward so they can lap around on pile ins. But for a nice safe pike block approach this is pretty good. I haven't really played around with embedded units yet. Also pray to Sotek that you don't fluff one of your charge rolls!
     
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  15. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Yea, for these combined units, I imagine you are going to want to do fairly safe, close range charges.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2015
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  16. KingCheops
    Temple Guard

    KingCheops Active Member

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    It's a lot harsher than 8th edition was because of how rock solid units were psychologically. If you were trying to hit their main battle line with yours but the dice hated you and you only got 1 charge off you were more than likely to still be there next turn. Now if you try to pull off multiple charges and miss your units will be defeated in detail for very little damage back to the opponent. I said it on another thread fairly early on but learning how to properly set up an attack and execute it well is going to be the main component of AoS. 8th edition felt a lot more like a big belly bump in the middle to me.

    Edit to Add: This is why Ixt's thread here is so good. He's showing how to arrange your troops to properly make contact.
     
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  17. kaintxu
    Skink

    kaintxu New Member

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    Ixt, sorry to put this on your post, but since u have mentioned them earlier, what is your opinion on ryperdactils? Do you think a couple of u its are worth it? Which size?
     
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  18. Ixt
    Terradon

    Ixt Well-Known Member

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    Rippers are crazy, man. Insane unit, there. I imagine that they'll get nerfed at some point if GW keeps its word and updates warscrolls. At the very least, I could see the Blot Toad/its effects getting nerfed.

    One unit of 8, or two units of 4 or 5 would be pretty good. The second option makes for two toads on the board, which will have a pretty big psychological effect on your opponent. I got 10 into combat on a Swooping Dive while testing the 'hook' formation and I think that I rolled up like 88 wounds with the blot toad around. If they get tied up, they'll still cause a lot of wounds, yes, but they're much easier to bear without rerolls.

    I think that most opponents will have to field a 'throw-away' unit against them, and then counter-charge/shoot to bits in order to effectively take them down.

    So, yeah, wild unit there. They are pretty flimsy against shooting, of course, but artillery is all that can threaten them for the most part. Other shooting is too short-range. The models can also get pretty expensive. Out of the box, 9 rippers will run you ~$180.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2015
  19. cyberhawk94
    Saurus

    cyberhawk94 Member

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    Hey Im a bit late to the party here, but Im lost on this Trogezo thing

    Why exactly do they have to wrap around the one model that is in Base to Base? Could the models that are close to your outside wedges not use their 3" pile in to hit the other models? In fact, how I see the rules they are required to! Since the TG on the outsides are closer to the other saurus than the one in base to base, dont they have to pile into the closest model?


    Also, you say several times that we will likely have many skinks on the board regardless, so we might as well use them for the withdrawal ability. But from what I can tell, there is no reason to use them over Chameleon Skinks except for the withdrawal ability. Is there something I am missing where they are more comparable before that rule, or did you simply mean that we will likely have a bunch because of the usefulness of that rule
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
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  20. Ixt
    Terradon

    Ixt Well-Known Member

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    Because they're being charged by a triangle, the base-to-base model will inevitably be the closest model to many. The first picture that I've got hosted is what it ought to look like after the enemy has already piled in. The enemy's formation was mostly square (with the Togezo having charged one of its corners) upon being charged.
    They're required to move toward the closest model. There are no real guidelines except that they must end up closer to that model than they originally were. As such, this creates a 'wrap' effect when piling in against a wedge.

    Now, the outside wedges are aligned so that their models are further away from the enemy than the models in the center wedge. The outside wedges become closer to the center wedge as you progress down the formation and away from the fight, yes, but they're also just over 4" away from the models that will be piling in towards them. In other words, the center wedge's models will be closest to the enemy. By the time that the outside wedge models are closer, the enemy will be out of range for melee attacks.

    Hopefully that makes sense - if not, I can probably illustrate it today or tomorrow.
    Yeah, the usefulness of the rule is what I was getting at - that ability is very good. Use it well, and the combat phase is yours. Chameleons are good in their own way too, yes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
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