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8th Ed. Lizardmen Magic Items: Review

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by troubled_joe, Jul 2, 2011.

  1. troubled_joe
    Saurus

    troubled_joe Member

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    Here follows a swift review of each item in the Lizardmen treasury. I think our magic item list is peculiar, since for a race which is supposed to have access to the most awesome magic and weaponry the world has ever known, it’s a pretty lacklustre bag, with a few strong choices but only one item which jumps out and screams ‘pick me!’ (you can guess which one that is). Compare that to the High Elves, whose list is littered with strong to extremely strong and reasonably-priced items. On the whole it’s probably a good thing, since I am usually deterred from taking many and therefore spend more points on the actual army. Plus, it’s good preparation for our 8th edition book which may well contain just 8 items.

    0/5 – DO NOT WANT
    1/5 – Horribly overpriced with many drawbacks, but at least it has a use.
    2/5 – Overpriced, too many drawbacks.
    3/5 - Can be effective in the right situation.
    4/5 – A strong choice
    5/5 - Practically mandatory

    Magic weapons: Their main problem is that most of the time you’ll be striking last anyway, so you waste nothing by taking an ASL weapon (great weapon) which is very cheap and doesn’t use up any of your item allowance. Most of my favoured builds eschew a magic weapon in favour of a great weapon, leaving more room for defense and enchanted items.

    Blade of Realities: Awesomely powerful, and still leaves room for protection unlike a lot of the ridiculous 100pt items of other races. My only gripe is it feels a bit boring to use. Sure, taking out that dragon before it even strikes is amazing, but when it just 'poofs out of existence’ on a failed Ld test it doesn't feel as exciting as when you hack it into a bloody pulp. Even items like the fellblade (causes D6 wounds amongst othern things) which generally 'delete' the enemy in a similar fashion, feel more satisfying to use. Plus most characters will be testing on rerollable Ld 9 or 10, so it’s only really effective against monsters. 4/5
    Blade of Revered Tzunki: Anyone wielding this blade will be S6 and therefore doing -3 to all enemy saves, a feat which can be achieved with a simple halberd. You're therefore paying a lot of points for the ability to use a shield and be a lot more frightening to knights. In my opinion it's a bit overpriced and very situational, but could be useful. 3/5
    Scimitar of the Sun Resplendent: Whilst it does have one of the most awesome names of any magic item, this sword should never ever be used, because it has been usurped by the Ogre Blade (common magic item) which does the same but cheaper. 0/5
    Stegadon Warspear: It takes up the skink chief’s entire magic item allowance and only works on the charge – and even if you get the charge, it may do very little. However it can be used multiple times and it does make the impact hits a lot more reliable on average. I think the cost of the chief + this item added to a stegadon pushes the overall cost too high, so wouldn’t recommend, but with a bit of luck it can do a lot of damage, especially against high initiative opponents who would normally strike first (oh, so that’ll be everyone then). 3/5
    Staff of the Lost Sun: Not that useful since even with BS5 you’ll only be hitting on a 4+ with this item on average. 2/5
    Piranha Blade: A useful little item which could be combined with a potion of strength to devastating effect. For this, however, you’ll need an Oldblood. It’s okay on a Scar-vet as well though since they come with an enviably high natural strength anyway, and leaves you enough points for a bit of protection if needed. 4/5
    Dagger of Sotek: The first of the Skink ‘anti-skaven’ items. A nice little quirk in my opinion, but still does not swing the fight enough in favour of the Skinks. Skaven will still dominate them. 1/5
    Sword of the Hornet: The best thing about ASF is the rerolls to hit, but you only get that if you have equal or higher initiative than the opponent. Not the best bet for Lizardmen, then, and only really useful if you intend to plough through hordes of low initiative rank n’ file. If this is the intent, then it’s actually quite useful as the rerolls to hit provide the same benefit as an extra couple of attacks, but for much cheaper. 3/5
    Burning Blade of Chotec: Very useful for negating regeneration on various monsters, and the blade’s other ability makes it quite useful against non-regen targets too, since you’ve already foregone any additional strength. Cheap enough to take ‘just in case’. 3/5


    Magic armour: You will find this section largely bypassed in favour of mundane armour or armour from the rulebook. Common magic armour is generally better or cheaper, and we have such high saves anyway thanks to scaly skin and cold ones that we rarely need more protection.

    Hide of the Cold Ones: You can normally only buy light armour, so this does give +1 save to what you would normally be able to achieve, but that can be gained from much cheaper sources. Fear is nowhere near as effective as it used to be, and the main benefit of the armour does not justify its cost, especially considering it also comes with a drawback. 1/5
    Sacred Stegadon Helm: I think you’d only use this in a friendly, fluffy, skink-themed list. It would make a stegadon a bit less likely to run away, but that’s all it really does. A skink riding a stegadon, however, can’t improve on his 2+ save, so the extra armour it provides is worthless. For a skink on foot, he may be less likely to run away, but he won’t need to, since he will be dead before long. 1/5
    Shield of the Mirrored Pool: The only armour we have which I actually like. Works for the whole unit and can provide a very nasty surprise for enemy wizards. Not much good if you don’t get targeted or are in combat, though. 3/5
    The Maiming Shield: I guess it’s nice to have the benefits of an extra hand weapon and a shield, but this is a bit expensive. 2/5


    Enchanted Items: There’s a couple of nice items here, but that’s about it.

    The Horn of Kygor: For something so monumentally expensive, I would expect this to do a LOT more. Add to that the fact that unless you’re running a veritable horde of cavalry (and why would you do that?), you can do pretty much the same for less than half the cost, and it means the bearer has no protection... it’s worthless. 0/5
    Horned One: A bit expensive to justify its modest benefits, when you consider what other races can get as normal mounts. 2/5
    Divine Plaque of Protection: The item for those who are super-paranoid about their Slann. Cheaper than making him ethereal, but won’t protect him in combat. I’d say go with ethereal instead if you must, but only use either one if he’s out on his own. 3/5
    War Drum of Xahutec: One of its abilities is now almost redundant, and the other would be so rarely used as to be virtually useless – and even then, it’s only a minor benefit. 1/5
    Blood Statuette of Spite: The anti-Teclis item. Not much good against anyone else. 2/5
    Charm of the Jaguar Warrior: Why would you take this (unlock an ability – but before you can use it, you have to use some power dice!) rather than the item below? Obviously it worked under 7th edition, but now it’s a no-go. 0/5
    Cloak of Feathers: Very useful to keep your priest out of harm’s way. Sometimes all the careful manoeuvring in the world is just not as good as relocating the other side of a huge piece of terrain. 4/5
    Carnosaur Pendant: I like the fact that they had to specify this is for Saurus of Skinks only – so people can’t abuse it and make a ridiculously overpowered Slann... I do like this item, though, as it’s one of only 2 ways to make an Oldblood with 9 attacks. Awesome! It’s a nice boost in any case. 4/5
    Curse-Charm of Tepok: Nice for messing up the enemies magic plans. 3/5
    Bane Head: In conjuction with the Piranha Blade this makes for a truly scary Oldblood. Just make sure he gets where he needs to be, and let him do his thing. Very cheap too. 4/5
    Dragonfly of Quicksilver: If you have a few points left and absolutely no more models to use, I suppose you could buy this. I’d rather have an extra skink though. 2/5
    Venom of the Firefly Frog: I really like this one – cheap, works in conjuction with mundane weapons, has the potential to augment existing poison. I wish they had expanded on the whole ‘jungle poisons’ concept and included more types, similar to DE assassin poisons. 4/5


    Arcane Items: This list often suffers from neglect because Lizardmen usually spend most of the points they’re prepared to spend on magic on a Slann, and the first item on the list is so much better than all the rest that it would seem like handicapping yourself not to take it.

    Cupped Hands of the Old Ones: A staple of nearly every list, and pretty much required if you’re not running Life with the Slann. Useful defensively and offensively. 5/5
    Cube of Darkness: Useful to have another item similar to a dispel scroll, even if it does cost a bit more. However if you’re running Life with all of its RiP spells then this is annoying. 3/5
    Rod of the Storm: Let’s you pay to use power dice to cast a spell, once. DO NOT WANT. 0/5
    Diadem of Power: Can potentially be very useful if you don’t cast all your spells, but most of the time you’ll want to be using those power dice to cast with. 2/5
    Ixti Grubs: Rarely seen, but potentially very handy to save a magic phase. 3/5
    Plaque of Tepok: A slightly more expensive Silver Wand, it has its place and could be used from time to time. 3/5


    Talismans: On to the last two sections now. This one is a pitiful, paltry selection to say the least.

    Aura of Quetzal: Use it in conjunction with the common magic item Glittering Scales to become almost impossible to hit in combat – otherwise don’t use it. Overpriced. 2/5
    Glyph Necklace: Wooo, another generic ward item with a different name. 3/5
    Amulet of Itzl: Expensive, once use only, and it’s not even guaranteed to work. NO. 1/5


    Magic Banners: A couple of okay banners, but nothing rivalling the power of other armies. You can get by perfectly fine without any of them.

    Totem of Prophecy: Overpriced, and of very little use. 1/5
    Plaque of Dominion: Potentially game-changing and certainly entertaining, but not exactly something you’ll be wanting to use very often. 2/5
    Sun Standard of Chotec: If you’re facing lots of BS-based shooting, this is a nice banner to have, especially when enhanced by Iceshard Blizzard from your Skink Priests. It’s overpriced, though, considering Skaven can do the same for less points. 3/5
    Huanchi’s Blessed Totem: Might be worth giving to Saurus Cavalry to ensure they get the charge, but pretty pointless for everyone else. 3/5
    Jaguar Standard: My favourite of our banners, since it’s so difficult to wipe the enemy out to a man – your best bet is to beat them in combat and then run them down. This makes that task a lot easier, cheaply. 4/5
    Skavenpelt Banner: Okay, so how can you use this banner? Skinks can’t take banners, so you have to give it to a Skink BSB, who therefore can’t take any defensive items, and this banner only works if you’re in combat. You now have a 100pt+ T3 6+ save character in combat – yippee! Whoever designed this one needs a swift blowpipe to the eye. I bet it was CRUDAAAAAAACE! 0/5
     
  2. ThakCo
    Skink

    ThakCo New Member

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    I agree with most of your review. However my view on the ward save talismans is quite different. I like the Amulet of Itzl much more than the Glyph Necklace. When I think about giving someone a ward save, it's usually because they have trouble living, so my most common recipient is a skink priest (often on an engine of the gods). Well, skink priests don’t have many wounds, so that generic kind of crappy ward save might not even save a wound. In fact, it will likely only save a wound every other game in which he dies (5/9 chance to save a wound). However the Amulet of Itzl very nearly guarantees one saved wound. So I like to think of it not as a ward save, but as an extra wound. So on weak characters, I like the Amulet of Itzl. On strong characters I prefer the Glyph Necklace.

    This doesn’t take into account multiple wound attacks, which would make the Amulet of Itzl even better.
     
  3. strewart
    OldBlood

    strewart New Member

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    Thanks for the review, just read through it. Some good thoughts in there!

    We really do have a somewhat thin selection of magic items don't we? Ironic since the sole reason to come to Lustria for other races is to steal our 'brilliant' artifacts... I bet they are a bit miffed when they get home and realise what they were already carrying was better.
     
  4. gewaltatron
    Saurus

    gewaltatron New Member

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    I like this review very much. Agree with most of the statements.

    How about a review about the magic items from the rulebook? (in view of a Lizardmen player of course)
     
  5. Revien
    Cold One

    Revien New Member

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    Only thing I disagree with is the Hide of the Cold Ones.
    The +1 toughness makes a saurus brutally hard, and if you slap a Gw on there you have a Dragon Scarvet of Doom
     
  6. Bananmats
    Saurus

    Bananmats New Member

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    War spear item,

    remember that its a spear, so the chief will have a magic attack with +2s. Small bonus.
    Have never used it dou....
     
  7. Naranek
    Skink

    Naranek New Member

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    Skavenpelt: the bonus is for the unit, not the hero with the item, so it can be more effective than spears / horde with saurus / temple guard units. I would point it as 3/5.
     
  8. Scarr_Horned_one
    Skink

    Scarr_Horned_one New Member

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    If someone didn't want to play a Slann for some reason, I think the Diadem of Power would be very good since your Skink Priest would not always be able to cast two spells in the same turn and a Scroll might come up too.

    I like your points of general direction and this seems like a good guide.
     
  9. Lord Cedric
    Terradon

    Lord Cedric Member

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    Strewart - since this appears to be a very decent, thought out list that is mostly agreed upon, could we sticky this to help other Lizardmen players, new and returning, as a helpful guide?
     
  10. strewart
    OldBlood

    strewart New Member

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    Sure might as well.
     
  11. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    I would knock up Stegadon War Spears to 4/5. The skink chief doesn't have any more points to spend on extra magical items, but with a 2+ Armor save, he doesn't need much else. It doubles your impact hits which is what most people want to use their Stegadons for and makes the Skink S6 on a charge since it's the only way LM can get a lance.

    I'd knock the dagger of Sotek a level up to 3/5. With four attacks in the basic profile you get from a Skink chief, he has a fair number of chances to roll a 6 and get a killing blow which is especially valuable to a skink because they don't normally have strength attacks. I know you are going to say that a skink won't survive combat long enough to use his killing blow ability. That's true if the skink is on foot. If the skink is on a Stegadon he gets to benefit from a high Armor save and extra supporting attacks from the Stegadon and crew. A skink chief on a terradon hunting war machines and the like with killing blow can take down his enemies quicker (handy for fighting the armies with hardier war machine crews than others).
     
  12. aroy
    Jungle Swarm

    aroy New Member

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    Okay so I have one suggestion that you may or may not like instead of bane head on a melee lord do it on slann with feedback scroll and instantly kill there lvl 4 wizard turn 1 when they go to cast a big spell or take a chance on a low spell and hope you roll good lol. double the wounds. everything else seems good!
     
  13. tZZq
    Skink

    tZZq New Member

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    I'll also support the Dagger of Sotek. I haven't run it much but a Skink Chief with it and the Cloak of Feathers is a war machine and lone wizard hunting machine for very cheap.
     
  14. Lord Tsunami
    Salamander

    Lord Tsunami Member

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    a unit of 3 terradons cost less and will most likely be more efficient.
     
  15. vapor
    Razordon

    vapor New Member

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    I think you've sold the Blood Statuette a bit short. It's great for taking out Teclis, EOTG priests, putting a wound or two on unkillable dreadlords (denies the 1+ armor save and the reverse ward pendant on a T3 lord), and for drawing out dispel dice in general-- especially against elves and Skaven (most Skaven armies I've seen don't put ward saves on their BSB chieftans, 25 points for a 25% chance to kill off this vital character is worth it IMO).

    Keep in mind it has no range or line of site restrictions, and you can reliably get it off on 2 dice (or dump a bunch on it if your Slann's concentration is broken early). It also combo's really well with the Lore of Shadow's Withering. I tend to toss it on my TG champ in my all-comers list.
     
  16. Lord Tsunami
    Salamander

    Lord Tsunami Member

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    it is NOT a 25% chance to kill a bsb.

    first you have to actually cast it (2 powerdice minimum), then your opponent has to fail or ignore to dispell it and THEN you have a 25% chance to kill of an ELF BSB. for a skaven (and most other teams) it would be a 11% instead. against T5 armies it would be 3%.

    It has its uses, but it would be naive to think that you will kill off an enemy character more than once every 20 games or so. You do have a chance of drawing out dispell dice, but remember that you do not get to add any magic lvl to the roll to cast a bound spell. your opponent gets to add his magic lvl to dispell it though. you spend 2 dice on casting it and you will get a casting value of 7 on average. if your opponent has a lvl 4 mage (lol, "if") he will get an average of 7,5 by using ONE dispell die. you jut handed away a free power die. yes i know that very few ppl would risk dispelling with only one die, but if so, you traded 2 dice for 2 dice.

    if it was me, i would let it go through, even on an elf bsb, unless i knew i didnt need the dice for anything important. 75% chance of not dying is good enough odds for me :p
     
  17. vapor
    Razordon

    vapor New Member

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    Crap, forgot that Skaven chieftains were T4, not T3 (last time I fought them I was testing Shadow out-- Withering is nice even if you get a bad roll).

    An even-up trading of dispel dice can be quite handy for clearing up the path for the rest of your magic phase , but you've also left out the fact that you can save it for after your opponent is out of DD-- and his choice is let it go or burn a scroll if he has one. Even on 2 dice you're looking at an 84% chance to get it off, and there have been plenty of games where I've had 2 dice sitting around at the end of a magic phase with nothing better to spend them on.

    You don't even have to kill a character off outright for it to earn it's points back. Taking a wound off can help your suicide headhunting squads be successful, it can also force your opponent to play more conservatively with that hero who is suddenly at half health.

    As far as who else to target with it-- many hero wizards (scroll caddies) are T3 and often you can force them to either burn the scroll they are carrying or eat the possibility of losing the caddy completely. Warlock Engineers, Empire Engineers, Elves of all flavors, Liche High Priests, Heralds of Tzeentch (though not the best target with their 4+ ward) and that's just T3 guys. My TG champ has 4 Teclis, 2 Unkillable Dreadlord, and 6 EOTG priest kills with it (and those are just the big ones) and many other times it's forced the early use of a scroll or the cube... not bad for something I don't really count on to do much in most games.

    I'm not saying that it's the greatest item ever, but it has plenty of uses both practical and psychological. I consider it 25 points well spent.
     
  18. colinsb
    Skink

    colinsb New Member

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    I see the Plaque of Topek a very good upgrade to lvl2 for 15 pts if you aren't spending points elsewhere.
     
  19. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

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    Plaque of Tepok is also not bad if you're taking a second Slann, or you're taking a single Slann and you are taking a lore with spells you don't want in it. You are down from 50 points for loremaster to 15 points and rolling 5 spells you have a really good chance of getting the ones you want (rolling duplicates etc). It also means no cupped hands, so you will probably be either unit hopping with the Slann, to mitigate damage if he blows up or you might take Soul of Stone.
     
  20. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    This should probably be unstickied as it is now out of date
     

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