So, I have this Empire friend who I play versus. Last time he brought me much pain with his 6 demigryphs, great weapon IC Knights, Reiksguards and steamtank (although it didn't really do much, but still!). I was utterly crushed because we played the demigryphs wrong. We didn't realize, at that time, that the mounts doesn't get to attack in the second row. So thouse 18S5 (armour piercing), S5 stomp and S6 (lance) hurt me, a lot. Very well, we played the game wrong, but I'm out for blood, so this is what I came up with: @2500pts Lord: Oldblood on cold one, glittering scale, ward save 4+, egg, great weapon. Oldblood on cold one, steg helmet, dawnstone, great weapon. Hero: Scar vet on cold one, armour of destiny, great weapon, BSB. Beast Priest level 2, cube. Beast Priest level 2, scroll. Core: 2 x 30 saurus with banner and sword/shield. Special: 9 cameleon skinks. 7 COR w/ banner, musician. 11 (yes 11) Kroxigors. Rare: Nothing. my thoughts? Put the cowboys in the COR unit at charge anything that resembles heavy armour. We're talking 14 WS5/5 S7 attacks. Unless my math is wrong they'll eat up 5 IC knights (with lance) a turn, without counting PF (at 14A roughly 2PF?), if the IC knights comes with great weapons it's something like 6½ IC knight per turn. Needless to say they'll plow through any IC knights they meet. The rest of my COR unit *might* kill a single IC knight with lance. IF I get the charge I deal D3 S5 impact hit, not crazy, but it can easily do a wound. The Egg will be my first try. If I roll 4+ with the thing I have a decent shot at getting another 2 wounds throught, but I don't depend on this (-2 modifier on AS+1 isn't exaclty mindblowing). From here on out my friend have told me that he'll probably be bringin his demigryphs in 2 x 3 instead of just 6 in one unit. This means that should I be in a position where my COR unit will face those first a unit of those will be dead in 2 combat phases. Right, so, the kroxigors. They'll be in 2 full ranks 8, each consisting of 4 and then another 3 in reserves in the third rank. Now this means that when they charge they'll get charge bonus + 3 rank bonus (should they go up against something alone). However, that's not why I made them like this. Fact is, that I'll have to accept that one, MAYBE two might die two a cannon ball or two. Without a Slann it's quite impossible for me to stop the steam tank from shooting. Anyway, if some of these doesn't go down from a cannon ball to the face I'm certain I'll lose at least some before they get to strike. Right. So worst case 3 dies before they get to hit. They then follow up with 24 WS3, S7 attacks. On average that should result in roughly 4 PF attacks, but let's not get carried away here. Against infantry they'll generate, on average 32 attacks (with PF, stomp), but that's not what we're looking for here, we're looking for heavy armour of any sort. Against the chicken knights those 24 S7 attacks will average to something like 6.7 wounds. So in other words they'll either remove 2/3 of a chicke knight unit or plow through at least a full rank of IC knights. That's not counting the average of one additional wound from PF. My cameleon skinks will be on cannon hunting duty. My saurus warriors will be in the middle and take whatever infantry he might send their way. Should he send any of his heavy armoured units towards my saurus warriors I'll get the chance to flank. My COR will hopefully protect my hero/lords should a cannon ball find its way toward them (LOS) and worse case scenario at least 2 of them will pack a ward save of 4+. So here's what I think/hope:He usually puts his cannon and Stank in each their corner. This means that, if things go the way I foresee it does my cameleon skinks can deal with his cannon (hopefully) and thus leave my COR unit alone, the Stank is hard to deal with so I'll have to try my luck and hope it doesn't wack too many kroxigors. At least that's my current, super simplistic plan. Oh, right, the Beast Priest. Their most important duty is to stop my biggest weakness: uber spells. Dwellers bellow on my kroxigors and it's pretty much GG. Unless he IF anything of the sort I got 2 rounds to be in combat with those guys, same with my COR. Their other duty is to get off the boosted version of Savage Beast of Horror. SBoH on my COR unit, mean they'll have an additional 9 S10 attacks. At that rate they'll do 12,75 wounds from their attacks and potentially another 2 wounds from PF. With 4 tries to get the spell there should be a chance to 6-dice it. Alternatively Wyssans Wildform on the krox will add some defence, same with my saurus. Curse of anraheir and Amber Spear are both usefull and transformation *could* be awesome. Panns Inpenetrable Fortress is a bit meh in this situation, but can be good against great weapon wielding IC Knights. Flock of doom should go be ashamed of itself. So all in all there should be a decent chance for me to get something I want and can use. I count my weaknesses in the following order: IF Uber spells -> lucky cannon ball -> IC Knights with GW -> IC Knights with lance (they charge) -> demigryph/Stank (in CC). So this army, I suppose, is pretty much all-in. It can go horribly wrong or I'll completely wreck face. COR unit is made to give me LOS and have a chance at dealing the odd wound every now and then, the big unit of krox is made to withstand some punishment before they lose their efficiency. My saurus warriors can win against most of his infantry or at the very least hold out. My final comment: 11 kroxigors could also be spent on 2 stegs w/ sharpened horns and more cameleon skinks, but ultimately they'll deal less damage. Also a lucky cannon ball can instant-kill a steg in the first round of shooting and if nothing else it can severely wound the monster leaving it an easy target for demigryphs. 11 kroxigors is an absurd amount. I haven't seen anybody talk about using that many and hopefully it'll surprise my friend, panic him and have him make some wrong moves. Should he, for whatever reason, not have what I expect and instead a ton of greatsword then.. well.. they'll hopefully be dead in 2-3 rounds of combat Oh the very final comment: should he show up with something completely different from what I expect I can always charge my two oldbloods out of the COR unit. So - what are your thoughts?
Trade saurus for Skrox, They will move faster, and haver static CR and can tarpit the Stank since VP hits are randomed as shooting. 1-4 Skinks 5-6 Krox. Trade Krox for Stegadons. Add some Terradons/Ripperdactyles. The focus of warmachines will be on Stegs instead of what is your battleplan. Dont expect magic in this game. Just bring scroll caddies. If CoR are only meant for protecting your Cowboys, dont take nothing with them. As only 2 or 3 will be b2b, with the points saved get warmachines hunters , that can be usefull as redirectors too.
I disagree with ManOWar. Both your krox block and your character bus will devastate his armor units. You'll kill the stank in only a couple of rounds of combat, and you'll break anything else pretty quickly. I would change one of the priests to lvl 1 lore of heavens, since Iceshard Blizzard is sweet. Also, see if you can squeeze in a unit of skirmishers for them to hide in.
Hmm.. Considering the units I'll target with my bus the Egg might not be needed/the most usefull item to pick. So lvl 1 + remove Egg will net me 65pts. For that I can easily get another cameleon skink, some regular skink cohort and maybe the Ironcurse Icon for the bus.
I'd second swapping saurus for cohorts. It brings more S7 love, and help to keep your priests near the front, for the short range of wildform. I'd also consider the skaven pelt banner on a cold one bsb. Giving everyone another attack, and giving the mounts in the cold one units another attack is pretty awesome. -Matt
I vote to keep the saurus. Vs Empire infantry and for the grind vs their knights the saurus hold up quite well. Its only vs S6 models that the swing goes in favour of skinks taking the hits.
In my opinion, you've got too few units. I would swap 1 unit of saurii for 3 units of 10 skinks + musician and standard + 1 Krox (which cost exactly the same) in order to have some chaff unit killer than can be redirectors.
For infantry you have the cold one bus, run them naked, the real power is your cowboys. Each CoR count as 2 saurus in terms of attacks you dont need saurus warriors unit. And what OP is countering is 1+AS below 30 models army. With some warmachines. In terms of having a block who can hold two rounds of combat Skrox is better. Because with saurus warriors they save on 2+ AS , the same with skinks 1+AS... The difference is you have twice the models, twice the ranks for less points, and same points with Krox that can deliver some wounds. So your blocks are made for blocking their hammers, then you flank charge them. Saurus will be giving so much VP. Also Skrox have their parry save and shooting means your rival can roll some 1's of doom before engage in combat. And what is more important, the feeling of beating elite knights with crappy pesky skinks. One game I'd charged a IC knights in the flank with Skinks and wype them all in a lucky combat of 2 rounds. Was funny.
One issue though - I only have about 40 skinks so I cant have say 2 x 40 blocks of skinks :/ I see your point though.
Running twice 24-3 Skrox fills the core points. (Here you drop saurus) going 6 Krox on Special saves 250 points for an Ancient Steg. So you are running 11 Korx as before, but you could divide them to take care of lesser threats. As they are more units having S7 less room to your opponent to move safely as anything he could charge will stay for at least 2 rounds of combat. And everything is gonna have S7
Oh, I see. I might do that this weekend against someone else, but tonight I think I'll keep the 2 x 30 saurus units and add 1 unit of 10 skink cohort. I've set myself up for a unit of 11 kroxigors so I'll try and bring that. If it goes horribly wrong I have at least once tried to have a large block of krox Anyway thanks for the help at least. It might not have changed much in the current list, but I'll definately keep it in mind for another time.
Quick recap (I'm on phone): Krox smashed 12 IC knights w/GW in one round of combat. The rest fled. Steam tank got a ridiculous impact hit ok 19(!) hits, killed most krox... COR unit killed 45 swordsman, 3 birds, the steamtank and then he resigned in the 5th turn.
Congrats. I'm glad it worked out! You should type up a battle report. My standard list packs an Ethereal Slann and a Scar-vet character bus. The character bus can smash a demon prince (and just about anything else that stands in its way), so I'm not surprised to hear yours shredded a lot of his stuff.
http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/first-report-11-krox-and-a-cowboy-bus-full-of-death.13441/ Done