7th Ed. Ranked Skinks Tactica

These units are often the point of heated debate, but they have a great number of possible unit sizes and shapes that can be made.

Let's look at some stats.

Mv 6: Amazing, the best you could ever expect to get from ranked infantry, only slaaneshi demons can hope to match this speed. This is an unbelievable advantage, as it makes you able to put yourself into bothersome places, wheel more, and win charge standoffs. Water immunity makes them far faster then even their sp 6 would suggest.

Str 3: Not bad for little hobits, it makes their offensive potential merely normal for basic infantry.

T 2: Atrocious, to my knowledge, the worst of any US 1 ranked unit. Only swarms are typically this frail, a common point of complaint among those trashing these units, but this becomes mostly an issue when fighting basic infantry, against str 5+ it doesn't make a difference. Most notable at getting them shot up by str 4 fireballs.

WS 2: Hit on 3's wound on 3's, I hear it all the time and it never gets any easier to hear.

Bs 3: Basic infantry, you'll be hitting on 4's most times, and you are still poisonous with ranged weapons, so if you can hit it, you can probably poison it.

I 4: This is a surprisingly helpful benefit, against empire your first attacks will be needed to avoid getting rolled by their basic attacks. Also helpful against enemies like skaven with higher I, letting you go first if you somehow won.

Ld 6: This is actually quite good, it is 9.8% more likely to pass then normal ld 7.

SV: Better then it looks, this is the same save night goblins get, and 5+ is what most fast cavalry get, and a heck of a lot better then what most skirmishers get, totally countered by str 4 Magic missiles.



But wait, there's more!

Kroxigor

Mv 6: Amazing, the best you could ever expect to get from ranked infantry, only slaaneshi demons can hope to match this speed. This is an unbelievable advantage, as it makes you able to put yourself into bothersome places, wheel more, and win charge standoffs. Still aquatic, but wait, no I can't turn? Has never come up in a game I've played, since skinks can wheel so far.

Str 4/6: Amazing, beats wizard face, beats knight face, most normal units will be gonked on a 2+ and will have a save of 4+ AT BEST.

T 4: The best you can usually find in a normal unit. It is, after all, just a rank and file guy. Helps to soak bullets, magic missiles, and especially arrows.

WS 3: Most things will be hit on a 4+, which is all this guy really needs to get a hit or two in.

Bs n/a: Kroxigor throws a javelin! wait....

I= : Well, can't win em all. He'd be swingin last anyway so the great weapon ain't gonna make it any worse, if your super concerned about maybe that one dark elf talisman, you could choose to not use it.

Ld 7: This is actually amazingly good, it is only around 3% worse then ld 9.

SV: Quite good, many heavy infantry only ever get a 4+ save, counts for a lot against arrows and magic missiles.



Here are several common builds for the skinks and why you might want to take them.


10 Skinks 50 pts.

Why it's Good: Dirt cheap, fills core, can be widened up to 10 and used to throw sticks at enemies and screen against arrows. Can be a speed bump, deployment delayer, redirector, or march blocker. Conceivably capable of defeating swarms.

Why it's Bad: Makes you more likely to go last if you take many, can be used as a speed ramp if poorly managed, no easy way to avoid having it cause panic. Conceivably capable of being defeated by swarms.

Upgrades?: Musician might help if it's going to be baiting a lot, and might occasionally affect a tie combat. Banners are quite dangerous, but might be worth it if your fighting really, really weak skirmishers. Champion allows the unit to form itself with a frontage of 1 and challenge to deny ranks and avoid counterattacks from the rest of the unit.

13 skinks 65 pts

Why it's Good: same crap, but you need to kill 4 of them to cause them to panic, more sticks to throw, mostly helpful if you really want something to just soak bullets or throw sticks. Can be broadened up to 7 wide for +2 attacks.

Why it's Bad: Still conceivably defeated by swarms.

Upgrades?: As above.

15 skinks 75 pts.

Why it's Good: 3 ranks, more likely to outnumber, sitting on +3 CR can help a lot. Even if they lose, very likely to hold against harassment units if general is around. Large targets and hills allow for inexplicably effective ranged fire against monsters and war machine crews. Able to break ranks, break skirmishers, and do anything a detachment could do, except much faster, and much weaker.

Why it's Bad: Still causes panic, can't beat anything serious, and tends to stay 5 wide to minimize it's number of ranged attacks.

Upgrades?: Musician may be highly helpful, since the unit is likely to be fighting things at this point, and losing by one can be quite painful against fear causers (which are often quite weak). Banner helps supplement their now reasonable combat resolution. Champion torpedo less likely to be a problem, though he may protect the unit from lone heroes, this is often not needed or wanted.

21 skinks 105 pts.

Why it's Good: As above, but with added benefit of greater security at beating down flankers, needs to lose 6 guys to panic. Can stop tree men, and throw many poisoned shots at them. Surprisingly effective war machine hunters, no longer afraid of swarms. Further, none of these units give banners when they die, so even with 21 skinks, you needn't worry over that 100VP.

Why it's Bad: Costs much more, and serious combat units of any kind are still beyond it's power to beat.

Upgrades?: Musician and Banner bearer highly worth considering, as the unit then becomes capable of beating weaker infantry blocks on it's own when flanking. Champion still of dubious merit.


25-30 skinks with nothing. 125-150 pts.

Why it's Good: well... it's bigger, it can soak a lot of bullets and still do whatever it wanted to, on average will blow up a giant with one round of shooting, makes things on hills very, very sad.

Why it's Bad: Costs much, much more, and serious combat units of any kind are still beyond it's power to beat. Becomes unwieldy.

Upgrades?: Unless truly devoted to ranged attacks against large targets, had better include command of some kind.




11 skinks with kroxigor 110 pts.

Why it's Good: Kroxigor, but able to beat things occasionally, when supported by magic and flanking can beat serious units. (I have seen this unit defeat chaos warriors in said fashion, much to the chagrin of my opponent) Still scary, still better lead, still throws sticks.

Why it's Bad: Somewhat pricey, banner can yield many points, and unable to give appearance of worthlessness.

Upgrades?: Serious contemplation on command, I never take champions when I take a kroxigor, simply because it is an excuse for an enemy hero to hide, maybe, most of the time I want my kroxigor to punch the enemy character. Alternately however, the skink can prevent attacks on the kroxigor from a hero that has str 5+ or some other hideous killing power, where his awful stats won't matter.

16 skinks with kroxigor 130 pts.

Why it's Good: A bigger, better kroxigor unit, able to be almost a straight up block in it's own right.

Why it's Bad: Pricey, skinks make attempts to frontally assault units with ws higher then 2 a problem.

Upgrades?: Near mandatory at this point

16 skinks with 2 kroxigor 190 pts.

Why it's Good: A biggerer, betterer kroxigor unit, can dish crazy beats, and by being 6 wide and moving within the unit can even have 2 kroxigors direct attacks at a hero. For when that hierophant MUST DIE!

Why it's Bad: Pricey, skinks make attempts to frontally assault units with ws higher then 2 a problem.

Upgrades?: Near mandatory at this point.


23 skinks with 2 kroxigor 190 pts.

Why it's Good: Truly large, can take a lot of punishment from shooting, beats face, still crumps heroes what good and can now seriously consider itself a frontal combat unit. (when it charges)

Why it's Bad: Pricey, skinks make attempts to frontally assault units with ws higher then 2 a problem.

Upgrades?: Near mandatory at this point

24 skinks with 3 kroxigor 285 pts.

Why it's Good: 3 kroxigors will kill most things, and are harder to eliminate with an opening assault.

Why it's Bad: Still skinks.... look somewhat still, needs 2 more guys to be 8 wide. costly

Upgrades?: Near mandatory at this point

32 skinks with 4 kroxigor 380 pts.

Why it's Good: Big, scary, looks hilarious, can very easily beat a lot of things it runs into. Not likely to roll over to knights.

Why it's Bad: very costly. Likely to be beaten by anything flanking it and lose a ton of guys.

Upgrades?: Near mandatory at this point

 

More skinks tricks.

1. Walk into water and bait people into it.
2. Claim water in the middle of the board and march block/throw sticks at people that come near.
3. Walk into a forest! You can still move as fast as dwarves, and you'll resist arrows and be immune to chariots.
4. Charge chariots from the direction of an obstacle and then flee! Sometimes people will not be able to restrain. d6 str 6 hits for the win!
5. Form up in single file and hang out in the flanks of your army, able to move forward and deny ranks, then turn to throw javelins at flankers.
6. Hang out behind your lines and tell birds to go away.
7. Sit on a hill and throw sticks, especially a forested hill or other difficult hills. You can use the second rank and will receive +1 to combat resolution.
8. Screen for temple guard in waves. With toad in the unit, they will not likely fail leadership, and toad can still fire over them. If someone charges them and overruns you can have the second line flee, and bring them into the guard, or even strand them in front for a halberd charge, Temple guard can be a hammer unit too!
9. Stegadons are also immune to psych, and won't mind a skink screen. (it won't stop shooting) they can stay on it's side in single file and the turn sideways, or just stay in single file protecting its flank, even fleeing through it's flanks if needed. A skink unit breaking ranks gives a stegadon 4-8 to CR (it may cause outnumber to swing in your favor also) Even chaos has difficulty killing 8 skinks.
10. Salamanders as a hammer. Seriously. Salamanders tend to hang out in forests or ponds and be in the flank, a unit of 15 skinks or so with salamanders helping can outnumber and punch most combat units, especially once the salamanders have done their work.
11. Screening for skirmishers. really? Sometimes a vital wood is just outside of your march move, get there by hiding behind another group of skinks.
12. 12 skinks wide is 2 wounds from poison even when standing and shooting. Assault some fast cav from an odd angle, (even if they can charge you, the wheel will make them enable stand and shoot) Against T 3 you will score 4 wounds with the average javelin volley, and 3 more on the stand and shoot. This is likely to kill 4 marauders or such, which is significant as one or two marauders is not likely to defeat this unit, especially if it has a second rank, (17 also means you need 5 to panic, perfect for fighting pistoliers)
13. 2 units of 20 skinks with no command will molest the crap out of a tree man, and outright kill a giant. The sheer volume of shooting they can provide against large targets is almost embarassing. Every 12 skinks puts 3 wounds on a T 6 model...... think about that. 2 units of 18 skinks, yeah, that'll be nine wounds. You star dragon saves 6 from that? okay, well see you next turn.
14. Against something with a T of 3, and a WS of under 5 and an armor save of 5+, 6 skinks will kill a mean of one unit. Goblins, dark elf spearmen, human spearmen, halberdiers etc, you can expect to kill a guy, this makes CR not seem so bad right?
15. Win the mitten race, get to 5 inches of humans and shoot. If you flee, they likely won't catch you, and you'll still be able to stand and shoot if you want to hold. If they flee, they need an 8 to avoid being cut down, so skinks can pin slow units down in this manner for larger units.
16. 3 ranks, a banner, outnumber. The vanilla chaos knight unit being 6 wide will kill an average of 10 skinks and have a banner. You will lose by 6. The odds of rolling a "3" on 3 dice with a re-roll is 35.9%. This number is far more annoying then you might realize. This is the average number you need with toad around. An unlucky chaos player can make your roll a lot easier. 1.1574
17. 1.1574 is the amount of kills a single chaos/blood knight produces on a skink. (including his mount) 2 ranks, a flank, outnumber, banner. a kroxigr and four skinks kills .699 knights. You win by 3.54, not including the modifiers for you striking first, which would put it at winning by 3.65. The odds of someone with leadership 8 passing a leadership roll at -4 is 16.7. Their general only brings this up to 27.8, and 47.5 with a BSB nearby. 11 -16 skinks with kroxigor will consistently beat vanilla chaos knights from the flank. This fact annoys the living hell out of a chaos player I know.
18. 10 skinks can kill 6 knights if they are fleeing. They do this without rolling.
19. It takes 21.6 skink javelins to kill a blood/chaos knight. A unit of 12 skinks in a pond pewing for 2 turns will have taken 24 shots, enough to do it with some small above means. Those skinks cost 60 points and will have killed a 40-55 point model.
20. Skinks are just as likely to resist a cannon ball as saurus. A cannon will never cause panic in a unit of skinks that is larger then 4 models wide. A unit of skinks can traverse the board unaided in 3 turns. If you can wait that long they can get to a cannon that's in a corner by itself, with no fear of panicking.

 

8 skinks and a krox is illegal. (10 skinks minimum)

I would dissuade against some of the larger skrox units (ie 16 skinks+) as though the krox are killy, the skinks i think give away more cr than they earn when fighting an equivalently costed unit from another army. Maybe some math should be done, but I predict that large skinks are not cost effective for their benefit at all, and actually are a liability for the kroxigor when considering CC. I repeat, this is a suspicion, a prediction, though I am quite confident that it is true and the math should be done (ie frontal combat, enemy targets the skinks with various ws and str, then consider equivalent flank combat maybe). I believe that small skrox units without command (except maybe mus) are by far the most effective (and cost effective), other than 10-13 ranked skinks (slightly different role).

I would do the math but I am way behind on work due to illness.

 

good call, edited.

 

Ranked skink units with kroxigor are too expensive. The skinks in the unit die too easily, giving combat resolution to the enemy. This more often than not will give the opponent the winning combat resolution in combat. Unfortunately, of course, if they break and get run down then the krox die too.

Best way to field skink cohorts, if at all, is to deploy a large number of throw-away cannon fodder units. 10 strong, ranked 5x2. They can flee from charges or just die to draw enemy charges away from important stuff. Otherwise, just take Saurus with spears, cos they're one of the best infantry units in the entire game for the 12 points they cost.

 

Looks like I got beat to the punch, but it's cool. So some comments and overview from what I've read.

As for the 'when to take skinks/skirmishers' question someone commented on, haven't done quite enough to do more than theory hammer. but, it seems using skinks ranked for shooting primarily is a bit of a waste. The tossing javelins seems more like a perk and a surprise (especially to some poor giant who suddenly has up to 16-20 javelins lobbed his way)

but 10 skirmishers with blow pipes will toss that many shots anyways, and usually you're aiming for poison against large targets...

anyone know if a stand and shoot, especially with 10 on a hill with no krox, might be an amusing reaction call. assuming the target has low armor, it seems like it could be worth the risk of 50 points. and you could still have them be redirected away when they fall like tissue paper to CC =D

I think the Skrox units are close to the right number of points in theory, maybe a touch too expensive. You trade survivability for speed. Though I've yet to really experiment. though 16skinks+2 krox = about 15 saurus in points if I recall. The saurus will win more fights on their own, but the M6 might be an interesting factor. And still throwing 12 attacks on the charge, six of them S6 hits.

Though mostly they just land in an uncomfortable spot, being fast, somewhat hitty, but the toughness of wet tissue paper. And paying for javelins that will not really improve their ability much.

I think we're just spoiled having T4, S4, Armor 4 A2(with spears!) Ld8 elite infantry of DOOM(tm) as core. After all, when you have one of the hammeriest infantry units as core, every problem starts looking like a nail. =D

And my last comment. I think Skrox and cohorts have uses, but they're really a force multiplier. They can move in aggressively, flank and mangle light units, then hang around to try to flank units for stuff that should be getting frontal attacks, like saurus. They won't win as much on their own as saurus. But saurus aren't M6 with aquatic. =D

 

Added to the index. Keep the discussions going.

 

For all those saying these units aren't worth it, that you should just get saurus instead... think about it this way. Would 150 points worth of skinks or 150 points worth of saurus win in a fight?

"That's easy, the saurus would slaughter them!!!!111 saurus ftw pplz"

I would say that is true, if the skinks ever allowed the saurus to reach combat. 150 points is enough for three separate units of skinks, while only enough for one of saurus. The saurus charge one unit, it flees, then the saurus get peppered with 20 javelins from the other two units. Repeat as necessary. Since the skinks are faster, they get to dictate the engagements (Or whether there will be an engagement or not).

Support units are a vital part of the game, and skink cohorts are excellent at the job.

Javelins are exactly equivalent to blowpipes in terms of shooting potency against T3 targets, since blowpipes will usually hit on 6's (unless you haven't moved AND the target is at close range - very unlikely). If blowpipes ever take enough penalties to not be able to double-fire and still poison, they become a vastly inferior weapon. Take skirmishers for example... javelins are just infinitely better against skirmishers.

 

@above
Units of skink skirmishers are better than cohorts at moving and shooting and kiting block units.
Two units of skinks (140, not 150 points) basically cannot die to a unit of saurus if you run around them and pew pew. The saurus will eventually catch one of the blocks, ream it real bad, and cause a panic test for the other two skink units.

In real game terms, skirmishers can move much more easily too, through difficult terrain (woods,ruins,etc) and between/behind units etc. They are much less likely to "accidentally" block the movement and line of sight of other units due to random space restrictions.

Also, skink cohorts do not get the -1 shooting modifier that skirmishers get. With toughness 2, the more protection against shooting the better.

ALSO, and equally more important.
Most of the time, only firing one shot is best with blowpipes due to the many modifiers they do, its true, incur. However, when you do this, you will still be able to get all 10 shots from the skirmish unit (if you have more than 10, then more). In order to get 10 shots from the cohorts, you need to be ranked 1x10, which as all Warhammer players know, is not the formation avoid charges from ANYTHING. A 1x10 unit is really unwieldy, a 5x2 (safest, most mobile formation) has only 5 shots, not even guaranteed a poision proc. *Additonal* Reforming ranks means no shooting and not much movement.

ON TOP of that, you CAN rapid fire, getting 20 shots, as much from one unit as 4 units ranked most efficiently (5x2)....You have that option.

 

"In order to get 10 shots from the cohorts, you need to be ranked 1x10, which as all Warhammer players know, is not the formation avoid charges from ANYTHING. A 1x10 unit is really unwieldy, a 5x2 (safest, most mobile formation) has only 5 shots, not even guaranteed a poision proc. *Additonal* Reforming ranks means no shooting and not much movement."

Expanding frontage is different from a full reform. You can change from 5x2 to 10x1 using half of the movement of the unit for that turn. You will be facing the same direction and still only have 3 inches of movement left, but the option is there. Obviously if you need to wheel first, wheel 3 and then expand frontage. 10x1 isn't too much worse than 5x2 if you are going to flee the charge anyway, since during a flee move you pivot on the spot and flee directly away. You are more likely to clip other units or impassable terrain, but you would factor this in before going that wide. 3 units of cohorts beats the blowpipe skirmisher skinks even against T4 saurus, the math has already been done. Read the javelins vs blowpipe thread for all the details.

 

Your right about the reforming, but some skink will move close to 6 inches during the reform, inches left ot actually move. And even if you flee, you can get clipped real easy or get in the way.

 

I've never actually played with a Skrox squad (I'm still new to this game) but it seems to me that a sking kroxigor squad would be the perfect hammer for a saurus anvil. The skinks make the unit strength high enough to drop rank bonus, and the kroxigor hit hard enough to cause some wound resolution.

 

yes still poisonous

 

Just test these guys out from time to time. I didn't like them at first, but this has changed.
They look very mean on the board, ranks and a kroxigor make (my) opponents think twice about advancing.

They work very good in tandem with saurus; classic flanker&anvil.
Skrox and skirmishers; redirecting + flanking. These 2 units go a long way to holding a flank. Add in A Salamander and some Terradons (or one of both) and you're set to anoy the hell out of your opponent. In addition, the Skrox might actually kill some flanking unit!
Skrox on their own work surprisingly well. Just aim for the stand-off. Set up on 12" (11 is also good, 10" when fighting non-elves and wait. Move with him. If he moves back, you move forward and vice versa. This can take 2 turns before he commits the unit!
If you manage to succeed that you have: 1-2 turns advancing. 1-2 turns standoff, 1-2 turns repositioning. In the worst case, that unit has killed your unit and is making it's way back to the real action in 3 turns. Best case; you danced 6 turns around him!
Normal case (most likely); His unit is out of the game, as he cannot show his flank or charge you. Likewise, your Skrox will not do anything either.

Tip from me; don't expect them to do good against Brettonians...Their large flanks are a good thing vs Skrox. I won't even mention being on the recieving end of a lance formation charge....that...hurts!
(That's why we can flee!)

On ranked skinks:

They truly are good IMHO. My standard skink support is 2 units of skirmishers and 1 unit of cohort.
The cohorts tend to do more than the skirmishers, as they seem to be less of a threat.
Just cheer every time they make an achievment (i.e. killing something!), and make sure you hunt that fast cavalry down!!

That's it for now,

The Hunted