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AoS Rate my 2000 points Bloodclaw army (also thanks for all the help so far!)

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Nielspeterdejong, Oct 28, 2016.

  1. Nielspeterdejong
    Ripperdactil

    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Hello everyone,

    First of all I want to thank everyone for being so helpfull to me, and also for being so patiently. I really appreciate all the help you have given me, and my little brother and I are slowly but surely working on painting our army. It has been a blast! And although my first match was against a bit of a immature Chaos player (whose friend won from me with his army last week since I felt bad and took a slightly more casual Skink army, only for him to bring Blood letters ^^; Apparently he did use a tournament level army against me after all), and I found that Sylvaneth feels a bit unfair to play against with most casual armies, I have had a blast playing them!

    I wanted to ask what people thought about my Blood claw idea? The reason I'm asking is because I found that many players at the club are fairly competive. And I wanted to have a army that was pretty well balanced and strong. I already updated my Skink army from a Thunderquake into a Heavenwatch starhost after finding out the rerolls on saves and wounds only apply in the combat phase (even though I will have extra troubles against Sylvaneth with this army). And I wanted to make some small changes to my previous Bloodclaw Starhost idea. This was my previous idea:

    OLD LIST:
    Bloodclaw Starhost= 100
    Oldblood on Carnosaur= 320
    Scar Veteran on Carnosaur= 260
    Eternity Warden= 140
    Oldblood= 100 (for the command that allows them better charges, and the reroll on 1 wound passive)
    Unit of 30 Saurus warriors= 300
    Unit of 10 Saurus warriors= 100
    Unit of 10 Saurus warriors= 100
    Slann Starmaster = 260
    Celestial Hurricanum: 320 (For the +1 hit, which works nicely with the Scar vet on Carnosaur his command).

    However, I found that when Slann can't summon they don't really contribute that much. And seeing as I have a limit of 6 heroes, I instead got rid of the Slann and Eternity Warden, and replaced them with a Skink Priest and Second Oldblood. Making the list as following:

    NEW LIST:
    Bloodclaw Starhost= 100
    Oldblood on Carnosaur= 320
    Scar Veteran on Carnosaur= 260
    Oldblood= 100
    Oldblood= 100
    Unit of 40 Saurus warriors= 400
    Unit of 20 Saurus warriors= 200
    Unit of 10 Saurus warriors= 100
    Skink Priest with Priestly Trappings= 100
    Celestial Hurricanum: 320

    With this list I will have more Warriors, and although the Skink Priest only has a 50% chance to give the area buff to my Saurus warriors, when he does I can give my 20 stack the Hurricanum's Mythic shield as well, allowing me to send that stack in first, with the spear units right behind them.

    And the two Oldbloods allow my army to move forward an additional 6 inch in the hero phase. Or I can reorder them in the front line. And with such big stacks the Order's ability to reroll battleshock tests will help. And if I make the Celestial Hurricanum my General (the Saurus heroes will still be able to use their abilities) I will be able to use the Order's command that gives a single unit immunity to battleshock tests.

    I'd give up the Slann's rerolls on 1, and an extra shield. But I'd have a much stronger warrior presence and flexibility. And instead of a 100% chance to reroll saves in the shooting phase only, I will have a 50% chance to be able to do that in the combat phase as well.
    Combine that with the extra attack on a hit of 5 or 6 due to my Scar veteran on Carnosaur and the Celestial Hurricanum, and I will have a 40 spear warrior stack with a optimal amount of attacks of 160, which a chance to gain even more attacks.

    How does this new idea for a 2000 point Bloodclaw Starhost sound?
     
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  2. Bowser
    OldBlood

    Bowser Well-Known Member

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    This seems fairly competitive, I always like a dual carno list. I might change out the second oldblood for a scar-vet on cold one to give re-rolls of 1 to hit, increasing your synergies a bit, and with a war pick a pretty decent attack profile too.
     
  3. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    That's actually not a bad idea :) However, what scares me with this army is that I might go against a Hellcanon. The last time I fought I could barely hit it with my Stegadon with 8" movement and 25" reach. So I'd need a total of 33" to hit it in the first round with my Oldblood on Carnosaur if I want to try to damage it or even take it out.

    The Oldblood on Carnosaur has 10" movement, and 18" reach. So 28 total, and I would have to have 5" more to reach it. Which means I would have to use the Oldblood. Maybe I can only use double Oldbloods against Hellcanon Chaos armies?
     
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  4. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Also I just found out that you can diable the Hell canon if you kill the 3 dwarves with it. I will keep that in mind the next time I'm using the Stegadon in my Heavenwatch starhost against them. Their ability lets you move an additional D6 inch during the hero phase.
     
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  5. Bowser
    OldBlood

    Bowser Well-Known Member

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    Taking out the crew is a good way to go. you could drop some saurus for chameleons to snipe the cannon crew or drop 10 for an oxyotl.
     
  6. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    T
    Taking Oxyotl sounds like a great idea! Provided he can take out all 3, but he should be able to.
     
  7. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Oh wait, you can only have 6 heroes :/

    Edit: I could replace the Oldblood on carno with a second Oldblood (along my scar vet on carno and scar vet on cold one), get 5 chameleon skinks, and add 10 more warriors to my 20 warrior stack.

    That way I will have 2 very strong stacks, and a 10 stack meatshield :) And the chameleons to take out the Dwarves.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2016
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  8. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Also Bowser, I was wondering if his 3 Dwarves count as one unit?

    If so, I could take a Luminark instead of the Skink priest :)

    Bloodclaw starhost= 100
    Oldblood= 100
    Scar veteran on carnosaur= 260
    Oldblood= 100
    Scar veteran on cold one= 100
    Unit of 40 Saurus warriors= 400
    Unit of 30 Saurus warriors= 300
    Unit of 10 Saurus warriors= 100
    Luminark of Hysh= 220
    Celestial Hurricanum= 320
     
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  9. Bowser
    OldBlood

    Bowser Well-Known Member

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    The dwarf crew is part of the cannon warscroll but is a separate unit. You must declare you are targeting the Crew. As per the FAQ.
     
  10. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Alright, but say if I only attack with one attack, like from the Luminark (1 attack, -2 rend, 6 damage when at full health). I can target the grew, and hit all 3 of them at the same time right?
     
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  11. Bowser
    OldBlood

    Bowser Well-Known Member

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    That is correct. The crew still acts as a unit for damage counting purposes.
     
  12. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Perfect! If I make a Bloodclaw starhost with both a Celestial Hurricanum as well as a Luminark of Hysh, I will have an army able to deal with his competition army he used in his first match with me. Even with his bloodletters, and with him no longer underestimating me :) It will mean that I'd have to give up my Oldblood on Carnosaur for another normal Oldblood. But that does ensure my army can move an additional 3" in the hero phase, and I'd always make sure my Saurus have the reroll on a wound roll of 1.

    This will be my new Saurus army then:

    Bloodclaw starhost= 100
    Oldblood= 100
    Scar veteran on carnosaur= 260
    Oldblood= 100
    Scar veteran on cold one= 100
    Unit of 40 Saurus warriors= 400
    Unit of 30 Saurus warriors= 300
    Unit of 10 Saurus warriors= 100
    Luminark of Hysh= 220
    Celestial Hurricanum= 320

    Perhaps I should make the stack of 30 warriors without spears to get the 3+ wound instead of the 4+, and give the 40 stack spears so they can poke from behind them?
     
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  13. SimonDread
    Saurus

    SimonDread Member

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    bloodclaw starhost consist units:

    • 1 Saurus Oldblood, or 1 Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur
    • 3 Heres of any combination:
    Saurus Sunblood, Saurus Scar-Veteran , Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One, Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur, Saurus Etenity Warden
    • 3-9 battleline uniits

    So I would interpretate this as You couldnt use two Oldblood to fit the rules of this Starhost.
     
  14. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    The Saurus Scar veteran was later changed to Oldblood I believe.
     
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  15. SimonDread
    Saurus

    SimonDread Member

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    I think I will build up to:
    Bloodclaw Starhost (120)
    Scar-veteran on Carnosaur (260)
    Scar-veteran on Cold One (100)
    Oldblood (100)
    Oldblood (100)
    Skink Starpriest (100)

    10 Saurus Guards (200)
    10 Saurus Guards (200)
    20 Saurus Warriors (100)

    Stegodon (260)
    3 Terradons (140)
    5 Chameleons Skinks (120)
    20 Skinks with Boltspliter (160)

    1980/2000
     
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  16. Bowser
    OldBlood

    Bowser Well-Known Member

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    Looks good, though I might drop the warriors for a Shadowstrike Starhost.
     
  17. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Bowser is right, you could just spend your points in such a way that the 5 chameleons get the shadowstrike starhost treatment. How about this:

    Bloodclaw Starhost (100) (Only costs 100 points)
    Scar-veteran on Carnosaur (260)
    Sunblood (120)
    Oldblood (100)
    Eternity Warden (140)
    Skink Starpriest (100)

    10 Saurus Guards (200)
    5 Saurus Guards (100)
    30 Saurus Warriors (300)

    ShadowStrike Starhost: 120
    3 Terradons (140)
    5 Chameleons Skinks (120)
    20 Skinks with Boltspliter (160)

    I added the Eternity Warden since that gives all your guards an extra attack, which is really nice! I removed the Stegadon, but instead you now have enough points to add the Sunblood, and a stack of warriors. Give the Warriors spears, and put them behind your guards :) That way they get the extra attack thanks to the 30 models (make sure they don't take damage, or that bonus is lost) so that they can safely poke from behind the wall. If the Guards die, you will have a second line of defense :) Plus the Scar Veteran on Carnosaur his command is amazing with them!
     
  18. Seraphage
    Kroxigor

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    Let me start by saying that I m a newb player
    Here are my questions !
    1) Isn't his list doomed to fail to scenarios due to mobility?
    2) Even equipped with spears, won't only 10 - if not less - out of the 30 warriors be able to hit because of the 2 inch range ?
    3)Isn't the Terradon / Ripperdactyl choice something depended on whether you are vs horde armies or more elite ones ?
    4) Isn't this list short on range power and as a result will probably have serious trouble against heavy ranged armies ?

    Sorry for the spam but I am very excited with AoS and wanna learn as many things as possible !
    Thanks again !
     
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  19. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry, I'm kind of in the same boat :) You wouldn't believe the amount I've spammed here (poor Bowser XD). Bowser has more experience then me, so he might know whats up more. However, this is my take on it:

    1) Well your warriors/guards can march, meaning that you can move twice your movement speed but you can't charge or run after. So you can move 10 inch each turn if you want to rush to your objective.
    2) Well you basically put your spear units a little behind your guards, so that when you pile in you can move them right against your 1 line of guards, and then even bite with the front ones. And then you have 10-20 warriors who can use their spears, depending on the line of guards.
    3) Well all armies are situational, no army can work in every situation. You can try to find something that works in most.
    4) Yup, you don't really want to use this army against a all range one. But it is pretty decent.

    This is actually the build that I am building for my Bloodclaw list, though I have a Celestial Hurricanum:

    Bloodclaw: 100
    Oldblood on Carnosaur: 320
    Scar Veteran on Carnosaur: 260
    Scar Veteran on Cold one: 100
    Oldblood: 100
    1 unit of 10 warriors: 100
    1 unit of 20 warriors: 200
    1 unit of 40 warriors (spears): 400

    Skink Starpriest: 100
    Celestial Hurricanum: 320 (General, can use the basic order command as well (immune to battleshock on my 40 warrior stack), defender or charge trait)

    I really wanted to add 2 Priests in here since the rerolls in an area will help nicely with keeping your army healthy enough to move in. But I decided to go for this more damage build, since the damage (which can be buffed by my Starpriest) will come from my 40 warrior stack, or my Oldblood on Carnosaur, while the rest all get decently buffed by my Celestial Hurricanum. Basically against a melee army I plan on buffing my 20 warrior stack with my Starpriest and with a Mythic shield from my Celestial Hurricanum. So that they can absorb move of the damage (hopefully the 4+ save and -1 on attacks against them is enough, so they don't need the rerolls on saves). And behind them (1 inch?) you can put your spear warriors to pile in after your 20 warriors attacked, and try to get a few bites within 1" and then attack with their spears. If you charge you can see how far you can charge (rerolls on 1's from your Scar vet on cold one) and try to place as many of your warriors on as many of your opponent's units as you can.

    Also, nice trick: I'm trying to use the command of my Scar Veteran on Carnosaur on my 40 warrior stack. The command lets you get another attack on a hit of 6 or more. The warrior passive gives you +1 on hit when you have 20 or more models. Now, combine that with the Celestial Hurricanum's aura, and you will be able to get an additional attack on a hit roll of 4 or more. Meaning that on average you will get 50% more attacks with your stack. And this is after you rerolled all hit rolls of 1 thanks to the Scar veteran on Cold one. You still have to roll wound rolls of 4+ though, but thanks to the old blood on foot you can reroll wound rolls of 1 as well. Meaning that you can get a lot of attacks.

    This build is a little bit class canon, and struggles against range, but once you get close you can deal decent damage. And my Celestial Hurricanum can get some nice range attacks off as well.
     
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  20. Bowser
    OldBlood

    Bowser Well-Known Member

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    Sticking to @SimonDread initial build with my change to add a shadowstrike starhost, you would have to split one unit of guard from 10 to two units of 5.
    But, with only 3 placements during setup, bloodclaw, shadowstrike and stegadon, you have a decent chance of going first, plus with two battalions you get more order items.

    Mobility isn't usually an issue unless your objective is on the otherside of the board with no portals. The battle will come to you. Which is why I like having the Steg and skinks in this list. The chameleons can be used for assassinations and objectives, The guard will also last on an objective with one of your oldbloods.

    Terradon do tend to work better as riot control, where rippers are better at assassinations.

    @Nielspeterdejong list is great, The sunblood and eternity warden bring a lot to this list. But you are sacrificing your steg, which is puts a big hit to your shooting, and your tanking.
    Arguably if you pile in right with the spear saurus you should be able to get a lot of hits in, but I personally prefer celestite clubs.
    The eternity warden doubles the attacks of your guard, mix that with the sunblood rerolls plus all the additional bites it makes for a lot of wounds.
    The second list with the hurricanum is great too. But absolutely a glass cannon. Your Movement has got to be solid to get this going. But once it is there this could be devastating to the opposing army.
     

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