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8th Ed. Razordon Happiness

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Discussion' started by spawning of Bob, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. spawning of Bob
    Skar-Veteran

    spawning of Bob Well-Known Member

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    I like my Razordon model. It is the best use of dry brushing I have ever done. It is my only purple lizard, making it the baddest purple dinosaur since the big one (Barney). I will never be able to duplicate him because of the secret mix of paints I used (actually it was saurus skin blue and saurus shield red....but in what proportions????)

    (I'll insert a photo when the model comes out of storage - home renovations have hit the hobby room)

    You also all know I have a soft spot for my hunting packs.
    huntingpack.jpg
    Visit "Spawning of Bob - Keeping Lustrian War Beasts" http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/spawning-of-bob-keeping-lustrian-war-beasts.10703/

    I've been doing my first proper read of the new army book with with the BRB in my other hand, and I'm liking what I see.

    RAZORDONS

    ;) They are Monstrous Beasts. Therefore: steadfast with 3 models, get stomp and swift stride! (they were always swiftstride as warbeasts but I never noticed before) I like the idea of charging into the flank or rear of some stalled / doomed combat from extreme long range (11 inch charge 81% probability, 15 inch charge 52%). "But I thought they were shooting units, now they've broken me and pursued my unit to death!" That infantry unit you broke has only an 18% chance of fleeing to safety from your swift striding 'dons (12.3% if your infantry block pursue as well) (go look at the fabulous tactica post "Cold Blooded Probability" http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/cold-blooded-probability.10479/

    :) They can lay on some attacks in CC. 2x WS3 @ S5, 3x WS2 @ S3, at I4 and then a S5 stomp. Would you put on Wyssan's or Hand of Glory on these guys to sway the combat? Maybe, if they were striking at higher initiative than a small group of opponents, or if you needed to land some S6 hits, or want to avoid annihilation and a panic test with your nearby pathetic Ld5 Skinks.

    :jawdrop: They cause fear. If they successfully cause fear (rolled at the start of every round of combat) they'll all be hitting on a 3+. And so will your Saurus, Scrox and Temple Guard who are already in the combat.

    :D Skirmish + Aquatic (I'm so pleased they kept the "Aquatic" army rule - some of my old jokes rely on it). Skirmish = +1 to hit at range. In a river, marsh, or forest they are +2 to hit at range. In a forest they are always steadfast. Sit in that forest and pepper the foe. Tempt that ranked up unit to charge you. THEY will lose their steadfast as soon as they have the majority of the models in YOUR jungle. Follow up charge with your steg (always stubborn) and watch the suckers break.

    :p They can suck up some hits. Skirmish makes them harder to hit at range (+1 to hit), and ranged, magic and CC attacks are resolved against T4, AS 5+ and 2 wounds. BUT with the Monster and Handlers rule (BRB 73) "When the monster suffers an unsaved wound, Roll a D6. On a roll of 1-4 the monster suffers the wound as normal, but on a roll of 5-6 a handler model is removed instead." As good for the Razordon as a 5+ ward save! (Not so good for the handler, but you didn't really expect to be bringing too many of those home, did you?)

    :astronaut: Range is now up to 18". Artillery dice give an average of 5 shots (and 16.6% chance of.... lets not talk about it). At 9" short range 4+ will hit, up to 18" its 5+. There is no Multishot penalty (rules as for grapeshot). Quick to fire means no penalty for movement. Sadly they can't march and fire (Army Book is explicit). That's still a 24 inch, no penalty threat range. That's better than arrows of Asaph! (except for hitting targets in cover, targets out to 24" etc, etc, etc. But my model is A PURPLE DINOSAUR!!!!!)

    :D Instinctive Defense. Must stand and shoot = don't face your enemy directly if you want to be a redirector or part of a double flee. You've got unlimited free reforms, so choose your battles. If you do stand and shoot, go roll a snack dice. If you don't like the roll INCLUDING A MISFIRE, then reroll it! That's right, only a 3% chance of failing to fire and needing to send a telegram (or 3) home to the Temple City. The old rules had a 33% chance of your adored pet chowing down on Paddy, Mick and/or Sean. Sean likes these odds better. Paddy and Mick have absolutely no idea what's going on.

    Someone else can do the math-hammer of the threshold artillery dice roll which would benefit from a re-roll (please). I think a 2/3 chance of a better result would be acceptable.

    :artist: At around 80% of the point cost of a Salamander, these guys might be a better deal, especially if you aren't chasing big blocks. A Sally will only put 1x S4 hit on a warmachine, monster or lone mage per round. But you don't want to use your sallies for that!

    So compare with Terradon rider units of 3 (@ 1.61x the cost of 'dons) which can drop rocks for D3 S4 hits each (average 4.5 hits) once per game, plus Bolas at 1.5 flaming S4 hits per round (at only 3 inch range) = Total of 13.5 ranged hits per game max.

    Spike will put on 2.5 hits per round at 9". Maybe he won't fire on turn 1, so lets say 12.5 ranged S4 hits per game. That's a 1:1.49 points per ranged hit ratio in favour of Spike.

    He's also a safer bet in combat. Bob's Logic: Assuming combat with very ordinary core (WS3, S3, T3 and not counting armour saves) Spike and handlers can hit with his 6x attacks (2x WS3 @ S5, 3x WS2 @ S3, +1x stomp @ S5) at the same initiative as those 3 Terradon show ponies (with 6 attacks @ WS2 and s3, and 3x S3 stomps).

    I say that Spike (and 3 snacks) makes 2.41 hits and wounds before saves, 1.67 of those at S5 (including stomp). Terry and his show-offs make 6 hits and only 3 wounds with no armour modifiers at all.

    The purchase points per CC wound ratio is 1:1.29 in favour of Spike, not counting those S5 wounds busting some 5+ armour.

    Add to that that I can't seem to permanently glue my Terradon riders onto the back of my metal terradons, they look ugly, won't rank up because their silly wings stick out, and I haven't managed to put them on their flying stands after 2 years.

    THE PURPLE DINOSAUR WINS!!!!!

    No, not Barney. The other one.

    Disclaimer: As a General, Bob draws excellent stick figures. Bob hasn't actually played a game since who knows when, and the last ones were against a hapless goblins list with no spiders (who sat back against their table edge to shoot, and generally fled off the board as soon as a Stegadon or Cowboy sneezed at them) and some Tomb Kings (who didn't flee, for some technical reason). I have posted this drivel to as a conversation starter to invite comment about how you think it is best to use PURPLE DINOSAURS TO CONQUER EVERYONE!!!!!


    Edit: Razordons can't March and Fire :depressed:
     
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  2. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    As a skirmisher, you cannot claim steadfast.
    Yeah, Razors are awesome, but if you want to compare combat, match them off against ripperdactyles.
    I'm a big fan of a BIG razor pack. 6 or 8 razors. It's a ton of shooting and enough combat to really hold it's own against most things. Unit Buffs always pay off better on larger units too.

    -Matt
     
  3. spawning of Bob
    Skar-Veteran

    spawning of Bob Well-Known Member

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    "Its difficult to form tight ranks when fighting in a forest. A unit with the majority of its models fighting in a forest can therefore never be steadfast (unless it is also Stubborn.) On the other hand, units of Skirmishers (and lone infantry characters) are always Stubborn if the majority of their models is in a forest - light troops excel in the uneven terrain of woodland." BRB 119.

    Its one of those whacky rules that noone knows. Especially your next opponent.

    Sadly, I don't have a 8 Razordons. Just one. BUT HE IS PURPLE!!!!!
     
  4. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

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    Step 1: Unit of 6 Razordons

    Step 2: Hand of Glory

    Step 3: Profit

    4 Razordons is at 260 points, very close to the price of a single Steg Ancient with sharpened horns (250). Something tells me that this might be a really good unit now... You can now consider Hand of Glory on these guys to be a super powerful, 5+ to cast magic missile. Get these into an infantry flank and munch away with your strength 5. These guys have excellent mobility, given they are skirmishers, movement 6, and swiftstride. Their awesome initiative really lets them do their damage, though they are a bit fragile. At least they have 3 wounds each! They make decent fodder for Wyssan's, because then their strength 6 attacks will be striking first. I also like their resilience vs shooting compared to the big Steggie, as a cannon will only ever take one of these guys off the board at a time, and that's assuming it even bothers shooting at them. Be sure to watch out for their leadership in terms of panic, they'll need to be near that bubble.

    It's a unit I definitely want to try out, subbing out my big steg for a game. It seems like a unit that can eat a supporting unit per turn, with either shooting or just charging them and killing in CC. Very fast and versatile. Also, most units will need to think twice before charging these guys...
     
  5. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    FINALY!
    Ive loved Razordons since first time I saw the model!
    Its time!

    Skirmisher
    Swiftstride
    Fear
    3 times use Wardsave of 5+
    Heavy stand and shoot (glad they made it reliable)
    2*S5 per model (does monsterous beasts get up to 3 support attacks?)

    for THAT price?

    sold!


    .....now I just need money for 4-5 -.-
     
  6. Smexygor
    Chameleon Skink

    Smexygor New Member

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    Now that they suffer from the normal shooting penalties, hand of glory is a must cast to get the most out of them. If it does, gonna ruin some units, if not, then hitting on 5-6 isn't going to be all that much damage.
     
  7. Dreadgrass
    Ripperdactil

    Dreadgrass Member

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    I really think you'll need to either field Razors as single models (more as specialised chaff) or as big units. Larger units unbuffed can still obliterate most chaff units with 1 round of shooting, (unit of 6 averages 30 hits, hitting on 5+ = 10 hits, with S4 that's a good chance at taking down/panicking most chaff units) so even if you don't manage to pull off your buff they can still be useful, whereas Id suggest a buffed unit can really help to trim down large blocks or force a few wounds past high-saves/toughness.

    I also like the synergy of Hand of Glory on them. Every stat boosted will give a useful bonus, so a boosted HoG combined with their stand and shoot will really make an enemy think twice about charging them. (especially in the forest, had forgotten that little trick!)
     
  8. rychek
    Troglodon

    rychek Member

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    Bob, I demand a picture of this supposedly purple dinosaur! Prove that he exists and why we should fear him! :p
     
  9. spawning of Bob
    Skar-Veteran

    spawning of Bob Well-Known Member

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    tumblr_mbq5m4nYwf1r0whsro1_500.jpg
     
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  10. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

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    IAN! FREEZE!!!
     
  11. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

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    They don't suffer the move and shoot penalty, nor the multishot. So if you can move to within 9 inches you get to hit on 4+ normally. Stand and Shoot penalty is a bummer.
     
  12. CookieGuy
    Skink

    CookieGuy New Member

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    I agree with the idea that Razordons should be ran in groups of 1 or large groups, as many people have stated, but a group of 6 would cost 390 points. The unit is awesome, but doesn't that just seem like too much?
     
  13. rychek
    Troglodon

    rychek Member

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    LOL! I asked for it and I got it! I don't think I would want to face THAT with any army. :)
     
  14. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

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    I think 4 is a pretty good size. Six is probably a bit much, but it would be a lot of fun.
     
  15. Dreadgrass
    Ripperdactil

    Dreadgrass Member

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    I'm thinking 5 could be good. harder to get below 25% with concentrated fire, so more feasible outside the general/ BSB bubble, plus fits perfectly alongside a sharpened horns EotG's for my 2500pt list. :smug:
     
  16. Mallas
    Jungle Swarm

    Mallas New Member

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    What makes you think that? The new book only says it follows the rules for firing grapeshot, but it is still classed as a shooting attack and as such, moving and shooting suffers a -1 to hit penalty, even for skirmishers.

    Is there somewhere in the new book that states otherwise, as I cannot see it?
     
  17. FavoredoftheOldOnes
    Terradon

    FavoredoftheOldOnes Member

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    This is all great news. I've always loved the models for Razordons over Salamanders. Time to go out and get some :)
     
  18. spawning of Bob
    Skar-Veteran

    spawning of Bob Well-Known Member

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    "Quick to Fire weapons do not suffer the usual -1 To Hit penalty for moving and shooting" BRB 73

    Cool Huh?

    Caught you! Hook line and sinker.....

    Here is the one you wanted.

    4kwk.jpg

    It looks a little more purple in real life, although technically it is probably lilac. Ask a girl what the shade is. Did it 2 years ago, never got around to painting the handlers, and just noticed I never finished my skinks either. Purple flesh with darker scales, and bleached bone dry brush on spines. Nothing special. Looks OK on the table (never played him though :depressed:) The colour works well with blue lizards and pink / red other dinos. Having had a close look, I'm now keen to improve it - gloss coat on the spines, and a darker wash on the body and around the mouth.
     
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  19. Mallas
    Jungle Swarm

    Mallas New Member

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    Oh jeebus. I thought Quick to Fire was always S&S and didn't double check that rule. Assumptions are the mother of all f**kups and that is indeed very cool!
     
  20. FavoredoftheOldOnes
    Terradon

    FavoredoftheOldOnes Member

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    Nice pic bob. Oh, also wanted to point out that I loved the cool stuff you posted about the new awesomeness that is Razordons :)
     

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