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AoS Saurus underpowered?

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by IWAT_The_Spidiladon, Feb 21, 2019.

  1. IWAT_The_Spidiladon
    Jungle Swarm

    IWAT_The_Spidiladon New Member

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    Almost all Saurus units seem to be very underpowered and die farily easily. And don't usually seem to do enough damage. I'm talking from experience, is there ways anyone has found that makes them better? And/or what ways could/should they be buffed to make them more viable?
     
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  2. LizardWizard
    Skar-Veteran

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Fangs of Sotek and Tail of Dracothion.

    Saurus are not point for point the martial equals of newer released units. Fangs of Sotek Warriors under their full buffs can be scary though. Saurus Knight are definitely more akin to Mauraders on Horseback than they are to chaos knights. And warriors seem to be somewhere between light infantry and standard infantry.

    Hopefully we have a new battletome in the works with some much needed Saurus love included.
     
  3. IWAT_The_Spidiladon
    Jungle Swarm

    IWAT_The_Spidiladon New Member

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    Okay, maybe I'll try those out.
    As for updating their stat line, what do you think would work? I've speculated changing Saurus battleline to have +1 to their wound characteristic so Warriors and Guard would have 2 and knights would have 3. That way there more akin to Chaos Warriors and Knights. Would this be too overpowered or a much needed boost?
     
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  4. LizardWizard
    Skar-Veteran

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    I think you end up being too OP with double wounds at the same cost. A better solution, in my opinion, would be to give them a 4+ save or ignore all rend to balance them while leaving their cost the same.

    Consider that Chaos warrios are 90 Matched Play Points for 4+ save, 10 wounds,10 attacks, and 5+ ignore MW. For the same points you get almost the same out or Saurus Warriors. Saurus are just worse on their saves and suffer more from diminished returns. So fixing the save would put them on par.
     
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  5. Accurate_Noib
    Saurus

    Accurate_Noib Member

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    what is your loadout and how many do you field? because I have a squad of 40 Saurus with spears so they can attack 2 lines in. I like using them as a tar pit because they are so numerous. they usually hold a unit for the entirety of a game. if they are supported by dinos and or skink skirmishers they could do well. what I like to do (when fighting melee army like Khorne) is to make them hold down something like blood warriors and let my rippers fly past them and get the priests in the back while my Saurus knights cycle charge them from the back by teleporting them out of combat every hero phase and making them charge back in again. If you keep that up you will melt high tier units. you can also bring in a sun blood and get them in that battalion.
     
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  6. Accurate_Noib
    Saurus

    Accurate_Noib Member

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    you can also keep summoning new units if it ever does get destroyed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  7. Furnus
    Saurus

    Furnus Member

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    I see a lot of people writing that this is the way to get anything out of Saurus Knights, but just so its clear to me: In order for the cycling to work, you've gotta consistantly make 9" charges - correct?
     
  8. Accurate_Noib
    Saurus

    Accurate_Noib Member

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    yes and no because if you roll a 3-4 then yes you have to roll a 9" but if you roll a 5-6 then you can do a 3" charge
     
  9. Canas
    Skink Priest

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Keep a scar-vet on cold one nearby, his command ability makes their charges more likely & considerably more powerfull.

    Meh, for warriors I'd say they should swap their horde bonus with the sunclaw bonus. With the rend & extra bite they'd become worthwhile at minimum size as they still might not be heavy infantry, but they would be hitting deceptivly hard for such a small unit. The sunclaw bonus can then be to be a horde bonus, but preferably threating the entire battalion as a horde (so horde bonusses as long as the battalion as a whole has x+ models), making it a tad easier to maintain as the Obvious solution won't be to just nuke the big blob anymore.

    Also, our shields should just be changed to reduce rend by a fixed amount regardless of what we face, not just ignore -1 rend. At least then it'd also help against higher levels of rend.

    That together would probably be enough to balance warriors without needing any point changes.

    Knights mostly just need their mortal wounds mechanic altered to be reliable.

    Guards need more wounds & (some) mortal wound protection in exchange they can lose some offensive power (especially the D3 damage of the eternal stormhost is weirdly offensive power for a guard unit)
     
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  10. LizardWizard
    Skar-Veteran

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Bring Cogs. Then you should make the charge 50% of the time. Even when you don't roll a 5+ on LoSaT or have an ScV on Coldone near them.
     
  11. ILKAIN
    Troglodon

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    bring two units of knights, fall back one unit charge with the other, rotate and repeat.
     
  12. Putzfrau
    Stegadon

    Putzfrau Well-Known Member

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    I run 2 units of 40 in my Fangs list. I've found them to be pretty effective most of the time, it's just hard to compare to the pure efficiency of Death or DoK.
     
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  13. ILKAIN
    Troglodon

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    oh we are not an efficient army. our win strategy is " MORE SKINKS THAN YOU CAN POSSIBLY DEAL WITH!!!!"
     
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  14. Torxhol Drakescale
    Saurus

    Torxhol Drakescale Active Member

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    I would leave saurus more or less the same as they are now, but with an extra wound and maybe a bit cheaper and/or of comparable price to ironjawz ardboyz. I feel as though warriors would be good bit more formidable, and maybe even make guard worthwhile.
     
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  15. Putzfrau
    Stegadon

    Putzfrau Well-Known Member

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    I like taking units of 40 :( i would be worried an extra wound would cut their max size down.

    I'd rather see their horde bonuses stay as long as the unit starts with that many models. And a 4+ save.
     
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  16. Canas
    Skink Priest

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    To be honest I'd just like both a horde and minimum sized units to be valid. The unit being completly defanged when it loses its horde bonusses is just kind of lame.
     
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  17. LizardWizard
    Skar-Veteran

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Yep, it is sad that it is pretty much 40 or nothing. Small units are normally only included to fill battalion/battleline tax. I think the extra attack being locked behind a horde bonus is okay. But I wish that happens at 20 or more and +1 to hit happens at 30.

    Saurus Warriors simply being more survivable would make their small units more capable. As it stands 10 Warrior will fall over to a stiff breeze. This is why smaller units are not great for holding objectives. And frankly at the this current moment is the AoS meta, horde based objective control is the name of the game. So I have a feeling even if 10 man units of Saurus Warriors were viable we would still be taking them in MaxSU.

    From a game perspective it is nice to be able to diminish a horde and have its effectiveness be impacted. Imagine if skeletons, crypt ghouls, or grots were always at full numbers buff.As a game mechanic I do like that there are certain thresh holds to aim for without having to fully remove the unit to greatly reduce its threat.

    Saurus Warriors really don't measure up to other battleline units. Our units power lvl is closer to Bloodreavers or Marauders than it is to Chaos Warriors or Liberators. So I think we either need to have our unit cost put in line with BR/Lib or have our save changed to a 4+.
     
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  18. PabloTho
    Cold One

    PabloTho Active Member

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    To bring Saurus up to scratch, I think they need to be made more killy, or more durable - but not necessarily both.

    I do think this is likely coming when we get a battletome update (which I would bet is coming sooner rather than later) but these changes will probably be contingent on the direction that GW decide to take the Saurus lore-wise.

    Our current lore doesn't really go into much detail on how Saurus operate on the battlefield (except Temple Guard) besides being "savage, bestial combatants" which is a theme reflected across our whole army anyway.

    If Warriors and Knights are being painted as hyper-aggresive units, their statline needs to reflect that.

    Warriors should perhaps work more like the Namarti Thrall of the Deepkin. Give them an extra attack and a bonus like even more attacks or better hit rolls against opposing horde infantry - justify it by saying lesser men/aelves are simply overpowered by their primeval reptilian brawn.

    Knights need to be merciless and efficient killers (the complete opposite of what they are now). Keep their squishy 5+ save, but make them much faster and give both the mount and rider more attacks and -1 rend on both. And for the love of God, activate Blazing Lance's on hits rather than wounds. Better yet, activate Blazing Lances on unmodified 5s and 6s to hit when the Knights are fielded en masse. Hike up their points to balance them out - maybe even lock them out of being battleline unless you take a mounted Saurus as general.

    My changes are probably viewed as drastic but I am so very tired of being forced to run a Slann and legions of skinks to keep pace with the LoN and DoK armies of my friends. I would happily take a hit to our very powerful summoning and teleporting abilities if it meant my beloved Saurus bros could pull their own weight.
     
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  19. Accurate_Noib
    Saurus

    Accurate_Noib Member

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    yes, I initially came into the hobby because of Warhammer 2 and I was in love with the saurus. they where some of the most durable and unbreakable mid-tier unit and it could hold its own against most foes so I was disappointed when my much-loved saurus got stomped by orks and co. its really unfortunate as they can really just fight hordes instead of medium level dudes.
     
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  20. Nart
    Kroxigor

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    Since both FEC and Skaven battletomes seems all about overbuffed cheap infantry blobs (according to my fellow players), I expect saurus to be same level of power with tons of attacks, easy access to reroll hits and wounds and increased damage. Not that I'm liking it, though.
     
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