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8th Ed. Saurus Warriors - To horde or not!

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by syypher, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. syypher
    Saurus

    syypher New Member

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    So I'm a new lizzy general and I've been researching, rummaging through forums and asking advice from other lizardmen generals. All with different povs on how to run Saurus blocks.

    ***Note: Where I play 50% of the unit lost (exp. losing 12/24 Saurus) gives you 50% of the points they are worth.***

    I've heard to run them horde of 40-50 to deny points easier. Mostly 40 HW/S and 50ish for spears, but equipment will be a different thread. Let's just assume HW/S. Arguments also that running them horde of 40+ gives them more damaging attacks to whatever decides to fight them. As well as makes them harder to flank since having 2 squads of horded Saurus takes a good portion of the board up and with proper positioning around impassable terrain and the board edges, as well as maneuvering of your flank protection units you won't get flanked.

    On the other hand I've read countless times to run them 6 wide. Having 24 in a unit is the "golden #" I keep hearing over and over and over across all the lizzy forums I follow. Some say to bump it up to 30 but still remain 6 wide, mostly for buffering from shooting. These smaller wide units are of course more maneuverable now and also cost less points.

    Now the question that's been bugging me as I try to figure out the best way to run my Saurus Warriors and build their movement trays as well...what do you think is the best way to run them? 6x4? 6x5? 10x4? 10x5?

    Please include any explanations and reasoning as to why you chose your formation. Take into account that where I play you don't need to take a unit down to 0 to earn any points at all.

    Thanks and I look forward to hearing from experienced liz generals!
     
  2. cyanhawk
    Chameleon Skink

    cyanhawk New Member

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    I almost always run all my 25mm models 6x* whether they are lizardman or not. My reasoning is that most of the time the 25mm based models are the more expensive models in your list. If you had two hordes of 40 saurus thats right around 1000 points of your army. Now imagine a pit of shades hits that unit of 40. You've just lost a ton of points.

    I also prefer to have more units on the table. I usually have somewhere around 10 or 12 deployments per game. 2 big hordes would cut it down to 8 deployments or so.

    I also dont think the extra attacks are as needed from the saurus as they are from other units. Depending on what they are facing the 18 attacks I get from my two ranks of 6 is almost always enough to win combat, and the things that it isnt good enough to beat (chaos warriors, chosen, etc) I usually want to minimize the number of models in contact and use the saurus as a anvil for a stegadon or block of krox or something to flank.

    In the long run without seeing the army list you want to try its hard to tell you not to use horde. I can certainly think of a list where a big horde of saurus or two would be effective. Try a game where you have a horde of saurus and a block 7x or 6x and see what you think.
     
  3. syypher
    Saurus

    syypher New Member

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    Thanks for your quick reply man.

    List will roughly be:
    Life Slann
    2x Ancient Stegs
    2x10 Chamo Skinks
    1x Skirmisher Skink
    2x1 Salamanders
    20-30x Temple Guard

    Games will be 2500.

    Then there will be 2x blocks of Saurus in there ran in some way.
     
  4. strewart
    OldBlood

    strewart New Member

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    I would avoid horde formation for Saurus. If you are 10 wide, that is 250 mm. Most hordes are 20mm base models (Skaven, empire maybe, goblins etc.) which are only 200mm wide. This means IF you can fully maximize, you have all models in contact just, with two corner to corner. If they go any smaller, you are wasting attacks with models not in contact. Additionally, leaving a model poking out the side leaves room for you to be countercharged from the front by monsters or chariots which will end up in contact with one of your models.

    As you mentioned, it is also unweildy and hard to move. I'd go with 6 wide, maybe 7 maximum if you wanted a big unit, and yes 24 is a good number, any larger is nice too. Don't go smaller.
     
  5. cyanhawk
    Chameleon Skink

    cyanhawk New Member

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    Based on your list outline you will probably want your saurus to be the anvils to hold charges for the steg's to finish off. For that they need ranks. I like to aim for around 28 saurus per unit run 6 wide. They can hold a charge and still get max rank bonus very often. Then you flank in with the ancient and hopefully break them.

    The temple guard can be your anvil as well, but I usually hold them back to take on whatever the most horrible thing on the other side of the table is. They are also very effective as a flank unit at str 5.
     
  6. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    I'd say with the wider availability of Wyssan's Wildform, Saurus Hordes will become more viable. Who cares if your horde is unwieldy when you have 40+ Saurus that are S5 and T5?

    Cheaper Scar Veterans are nice too.

    I don't think Saurus Hordes will become the new must-have unit but I think they are more viable now under the new book than the old one.
     
  7. eppe
    Kroxigor

    eppe New Member

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    I'm thinking the more models that can attack the better with PF and Jungle Swarms giving poison. I'm not sure if I'm sold on a Horde Saurus but I'm considering it.
     
  8. The Hunted
    Carnasaur

    The Hunted Active Member

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    Oh wow...this thread is almost 2 years old! How on earth did it end up on my screen?...

    Anyways,
    This completely sums up my side of the story. 6x4 or 6x5.
    2 units; 1 with WH/Sh the other with Spears. Flexible, powerfull and solid.

    The Hunted
     
  9. McCoy
    Saurus

    McCoy Member

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    Amazing feat of necromancy. You should be a Vampire player!

    Information was useful to note though, so thanks ^^.
     
  10. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    I AM a vampire player, though my Lustrian undead conversions have been pushed to the back burner by the new book for my primary army. Behold my Skink zombies!

    As the Keeper of the Tactica Index I support constructive thread necromancy.
     
  11. stormtruperTK41
    Saurus

    stormtruperTK41 New Member

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    I will say right now from experience that a horde of saurus with spears and now with PF throws out a hilarious number of attacks. With wyssan the results are usually hilarious as well, and if you get some jungle swarms in there, it is even more laughable how much damage you can do to basically anything.
     
  12. Andrinor
    Saurus

    Andrinor Member

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    I ran a horde with the new book and I had most of my fourth rank's attacks taken out by the time I got into combat on turn 3 (my opponent did not move forward). Until we get an FAQ ruling, I am going with Predatory Fighter only affecting the front rank, so it didn't have much of an effect for me.

    Typically, I do run a couple of units of 24 Saurus in 6-wide formation in most of my 2500 and up lists. With the new book, I could see dropping them down to 5 wide if you were very serious about Jungle swarms and getting those in on the corners in the front ark, which is probably the best spot for them as you only get a single model in base contact with your swarms, limiting the attacks on them and the combat res they will give up while maximizing your poison attacks.
     

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