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Star Trek vs. Star Wars (and a collection of Lightsaber dueling videos)

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by NIGHTBRINGER, Apr 16, 2015.

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Star Trek or Star Wars; which do you like better?

  1. Star Trek

    11 vote(s)
    22.9%
  2. Star Wars

    37 vote(s)
    77.1%
  1. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

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  4. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Skar-Veteran

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

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    It’s good (nice to see a return to the Prequels era with Clone Troopers and Battle Droids being awesome as usual), but it confirms what I was secretly dreading - that it will be mostly Ahsoka-centric despite them quite rightly sending her out of the Jedi Academy. I know most of you don’t mind Ahsoka nearly as much as I do, but imagine if Star Trek HQ unveiled a series focusing on Wesley when he becomes a Starfleet Captain (he obviously would because of his evident genius), or focusing on his adventures with the Traveller, and I imagine you’d feel as much pain as I am now. In fact I honestly don’t understand why none of you see Ahsoka as essentially Wesley but female, alien and Force-sensitive like I do.
     
  5. ravagekitteh
    Stegadon

    ravagekitteh Well-Known Member

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    Ok, screw Episode IX, this is the real news! Looks like it’s going to be fantastic!
     
  6. Killer Angel
    OldBlood

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    There's also The Mandalorian…



     
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  7. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Skar-Veteran

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

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    And the Cassian Andor series!
     
  8. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

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    I'm sure somebody out there does, but probably not very many!

    Agreed!

    I'm more excited for the Mandalorian.
     
  9. NIGHTBRINGER
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  11. NIGHTBRINGER
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  14. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
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    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

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    I've been thinking about this Jar Jar Sith Lord idea lately. I think the main fault with Lucas' idea was that he had planned to reveal Jar Jar's Sith Lord self in Episode II, a whole film away from when he's first revealed. I believe the reason Yoda, who was introduced as a similarly comic-relief character, was so successful was that they didn't wait that long to reveal his Jedi Master status - we find out he's one of the greatest Jedi Masters in the galaxy in Episode V, the same film we first see him, not that long after we first meet him. Jar Jar, on the other hand, was planned to be revealed as his true identity in Episode II rather than when we first meet him in Episode I. Of course fans couldn't look into Lucas' head and see that there was a deeper plot in store for our Gungan friend and thought that he was purely for comic relief to entertain children when they saw Jar Jar's full performance in Episode I. Out poured the hate, and Lucas went back on his idea to try and pacify the rage spawned by the masses, and so we ended up with the tragic comic character that we know today.

    Now, imagine instead that Lucas followed the Yoda approach and revealed Jar Jar's true identity in Episode I rather than II - fans would still have had the same initial reaction when we first meet him, but that reaction would most likely change positively when it is revealed that it is all a disguise, just like Yoda's silliness was a disguise in V. I think this would have made Jar Jar far more popular than he actually is.

    Now the question is, what would have been a good way to reveal Jar Jar's Sith Lord persona? Of course we'll never know George's original idea, but we can speculate on what would have been a fun way to do it. There is the obvious way of having him consult with Palpatine behind the scenes through a hologram or face-to-face at the end of the film just as they ultimately had Count Dooku interact with Palpatine in Episode II, but, in my view at least, that is a bit too obvious.

    My favourite idea is having Jar Jar as a character similar to how he is portrayed in the parody William Shakespeare's Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom of Menace, as a character pretending to be an idiot but who is manipulating the course of events to try and elevate his people in the eyes of the rest of the galaxy. Certainly there is premise for this in the setting of Episode I - the Naboo regard the Gungans as primitive savages with no respect for civilised ways, and the Gungans, secretively remaining hidden in their underwater cities, view the Naboo as arrogant and selfish, but make no attempt to try and change the Naboo's view of them. As a result, most other planets in the galaxy would see the Gungans in the way that the Naboo do, as not only are the Naboo humans and so receive more sympathy from other human populations, but also come in more regular contact with the residents of other planets, and so peoples from other planets in the galaxy are more likely to sympathise with the Naboo's views. What if, then, this more intelligent Jar Jar knows of this because he has wandered around everywhere on his travels as an outcast and heard (and possibly even experienced) this prejudice from the Naboo? Aspiring to change this view and prove to the galaxy that Gungans are just as capable of doing good things as everyone else, he plans to try and elevate his people's status in everyone's eyes. When he ultimately meets Qui-Gon, he realises that the Jedi Knight could be his ticket to achieving this goal, and so does all he can to help bridge the Gungans and the Naboo together in friendship. When Padme and Boss Nass agree the alliance, Jar Jar knows his plan has finally come to fruition, and knows that he must now do all he can to help protect both his people and their allies to keep this new friendship alive in the ensuing battle. While the Gungans initially seem to be doing well at fighting back against the Droid menace, that all changes when shots from a Droideka blow up the Gungans' shield generator - now they are vulnerable to the brutal firepower of the AATs. This is where Jar Jar reveals his true nature - seeing his people die everywhere drives him to anger, and he draws a red Lightsaber hidden in his clothing and ignites it, cutting down Battle Droids left and right, and combining his natural Gungan flexibility with the power of the Force to avoid shot after shot. Jar Jar's stand encourages Captain Tarpals and the other Gungans to regroup and lead a counter attack, hitting the Droid army hard enough to keep them occupied until Anakin destroys the Control Ship, powering down the Droids and bringing about the Gungan victory. Everything else then happens as per the actual film, so that it remains a combined Gungan and Naboo victory. News then spreads across the galaxy of the battle and the new alliance, and people finally see the Gungans as a respectable member race of the Republic.

    Of course, this makes the Sith Jar Jar a more benign character than the other Sith we know across the saga, but just because a Sith follows a code that centres on himself, this doesn't always make him pure evil - the Sith code still encourages caring for those you love, for example - something the Jedi code forbids as it can make people care for those they love above the masses. Indeed Darth Malgus from the EU (yes I do know a few things about the EU) wrote accounts of his Sith war against the Jedi, and in these memoirs he makes special note to honour his girlfriend (from Titan Books' Book of Sith), showing that even with all the cruelty he displays towards the Jedi in the EU, he still has a shred of good in him. Similarly Darth Vader, on finding that Luke is his son, changes his attitude towards him - he is no longer that irritating Force-sensitive Rebel scum in the X-Wing that blew up the Death Star. Vader goes so far as to plead Luke to join him and makes a vow to betray Darth Sidious, the Sith Master he has served loyally for 21 years. In the same way, Jar Jar still feels the need to elevate his people in the eyes of others, despite being a Dark Side user. Also in terms of the Rule of Two, it could be that one of the Sith Masters along the line from Darth Bane broke the Rule of Two before Sidious did, resulting in the raising and training of Jar Jar as a Sith, and Jar Jar himself may also not be a full ally of Sidious - both have their own agendas that can clash with that of the other, as demonstrated in the above scenario.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019 at 11:01 AM
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  15. NIGHTBRINGER
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