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8th Ed. Terradon Riders: Javelins or Bolas?

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by ElectricPaladin, Nov 26, 2013.

  1. ElectricPaladin
    Saurus

    ElectricPaladin Member

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    Here are the merits and flaws of each as I see them:

    Javelins
    + Free
    + Quick to Fire lets you position your terradons more aggressively, confident that if they get charged you can Stand & Shoot and have a better chance of taking out one or two of the enemy before they make it into combat. Never a bad thing. Additionally, makes moving and shooting a better option, which adds to the unit's utility.
    + Decent range lets you use the terradons more effectively as an independent harassing unit if you don't want to get into melee (which I understand they are decent at, but there are always opponents you might want to harass who are better at it).
    - Standard lousy Strength for Lizardmen shooting.

    Bolas
    - Costs points, but...
    + Not many
    + Unusually high Strength for Lizardmen shooting.
    + Flaming Attacks with said decent Strenfth lets you try to tag unit with even a single wound and hope to cause panic and/or eliminate Regeneration.
    - Tiny range makes placing the unit harder. You need to be within 3'' in order to avoid an additional penalty to your already mediocre BS. Range too short to make standing still and shooting ever a real option.

    I am totally torn. Javelins seem more versatile - and as I understand it, the main advantage of the terradons is their versatility, being extremely fast and mobile - so they might be a clear choice. But, on the other hand, the bolas bring a lot to the table - another source of flaming attacks, unusually high Strength - and on a platform that just might be fast enough to mitigate the short range.

    What do you think?
     
  2. Ssword1995
    Cold One

    Ssword1995 Member

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    In my use with bolas and terradons in general is trying to get behind an army and against warriors or skagen or the old dark elf hydra being able to eliminate that regen then go in with a unit of skinks and turn tlem into a pincushion usually works :) they are very versatile and have served me very well but their a support unit not a go in and kill stuff unit
     
  3. ElectricPaladin
    Saurus

    ElectricPaladin Member

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    But how do you ever hit anything? With a 6'' range and no Quick to Fire... Normally you'll be hitting on 4s. If you move and shoot - and if you don't do that, what's the point of a flying platform? - you are hitting on 5s. The only way to avoid hitting on 6s is to get within 3'' of them, which severely limits your options. Old Ones forbid they have some way to further penalize your BS

    Compared to a 12'' weapon with Quick to Fire... you still hit on 4s even if you march. You can be 6'' away and still hit on 4s, and even if your'e 12'' away, you're still hitting on 5s, which isn't bad.

    I want to like the bolas, but I feel like I'd never hit.
     
  4. Ssword1995
    Cold One

    Ssword1995 Member

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    For bolas i also invest in the sky leadet for the extra bs or hand of glory their bs before. The javelins are good against all armies because well their javelins. The bolas are for big regen targets. Trolls abominations chimeras hydras and u only need the one hit anyway so investing in the sky leader or puttin hand on em has worked for me so far. If your facing armies that usually dont have regen id say dont even bother with it.
     
  5. Tecuani
    Saurus

    Tecuani Member

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    The one time I swapped out my Terradon's javelins, I found the 6" difference in range more of a drawback than I expected, not just in limiting my targets but in forcing me to be closer to them to shoot. Generally, the javelin's advantages of range and poison are an advantage against most targets, while the flaming attacks of the fire Bolas is very situational. It's a specific counter to regenerating units, and even against such a unit it's unreliable, and with all our shooting short-ranged and inaccurate, you can't rely on having the heavy supporting fire on hand to do real damage once regeneration has been cancelled.
     
  6. Asamu
    Saurus

    Asamu Member

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    I would go with Bolas. You don't get the volume of fire with terradons that you really want to make the shooting do much anyway, so you may as well take the Bolas just for something to knock out regen in the shooting phase that isn't a template.
     
  7. slann5
    Skink

    slann5 New Member

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    Bolas are quick to fire.
     
  8. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    Bolas look cool.
    Outside of that, I don't have any reason to take them.
    Flaming hits don't cause panic, but it does make you cause fear in warbeasts and cavalry.

    IMO, it should have been a flaming sling; 1 shot at 18" or 2 at 9". Even then, I think Jav would be better.

    What still regenerates?
    Abomination, which can charge you without you getting a charge reaction if you fail to shoot it to death.
    Trolls, which I usually see centrally located to be near the general and BSB, making it very hard to skirt around and shoot.
    Nurgle, where if you're really lucky (actually hit, and wound the T5), you just drop the save from 4+ to 5+.
    Crypt Horrors, who can rapidly heal back, and are hard to actually wound (T5).
    New hydras don't regenerate.

    Tactically, I'm not seeing flaming coming up all that often that I want to take a worse weapon to get it. When regeneration does come up, it's typically on very high toughness models where S4 isn't good enough.

    Not much reason to use them... other than looking cool that is.

    -Matt
     
  9. kroxigor01
    Ripperdactil

    kroxigor01 Member

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    Terradons already cause fear.

    I think they are worth it.

    Lose 6" range and poison, gain S4 and flaming. Both the range and strength are essentially useless imo. Poison is pretty useless as well, we already have buckets of poison in the army. Anything vulnerable to S3 poison is plenty dead already, 3 extra shots isn't going to get much value.

    Bolas are interesting because against Regen you change the shooting phase entirely.

    Against trolls 3 shots removes Regen 58% of the time.
    Against an Abomination 3 shots removes Regen 42% of the time.

    Suddenly those units move from the "to hard" to the "vulnerable to poison" category.

    Sure, you may not face the unarmoured Regen things much, but that one time you do you'll wish you paid the point.
     
  10. Kcibrihp-Esurc
    Razordon

    Kcibrihp-Esurc Well-Known Member

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    Well it's kind of 50/50 I never take them because I go for range and poison but it's less of how you're using them and more what you're using them against because if you're up against armour saves it's Fireleech if up against lots of regen then Fireleech and buildings then Fireleech but this can be replaced by Salamanders whereas if you're up against high toughness then poison wins but, why not go for a combo? why bother arguing which is better you could take one unit with Fireleech and two with Javelins meaning you will have at least six shots to take advantage of the Regen-Pause
     
  11. Kblock
    Kroxigor

    Kblock Active Member

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    I just got my first unit of Terradons, so this discussion has been very interesting. I am leaning towards the bolas because they do look cool. The shorter range is a concern compared to the javelins, but my 3 units of Skink skirmishers will have to handle the poison duty.
     

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