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6th Ed. Two skinks units and two flee reactions to charge

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by blueslevin, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. blueslevin
    Jungle Swarm

    blueslevin New Member

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    Dear forum,

    I am currentyl playing the 6th edition (that is to say the BEST edition ;) ) with some friends. I would like to ask for a clarification on a tactics that involves skink units.
    Let's suppose the following configuration:

    .......[ e e e e e e e e e e]
    ............. /
    ............./
    ............v
    s1 s1 s1
    ..s1 s1 s1.........s2 s2 s2 s2
    s1 s1 s1 s1........s2 s2 s2
    .........................s2 s2 2s s2

    ...........[k k k k k k]

    S1s are the unit #1 of skink skirmishers,
    S2s are the unit #2 of skink skirmishers,
    Ks are the unit of Kroxigors (or actually any other units, e.g. cold one knights)
    Es are an enemy unit.

    In that scenario I would like to ask some questions:

    1. "E" charges "S1", "S1" flee as reaction to charge. "E" decides to pursue "S1", "S1" on the 2D6 rolls a sufficient high result to escape the charge, but "S2" is in charging distance of "E" and just in front of the unit while the unit is pursuing "S1". Can "E" decide to redirect the charge to "S2" at this point?
    If the answer is "no" and "S2" is also very close to "E" (let's say 4" and "E" has movement 6") does "E" stops 1" from "S2"?

    2. "E" charges "S1", "S1" flee as reaction to charge. "E" decides to redirect the charge to "S2". In the pursuing path of "E", the unit found the previously fled unit "S1". What happens?

    3. "E" charges "S1", "S1" flee as reaction to charge. "E" decides to redirect the charge to "S2". “S2” flees and escape the charge as well. In the pursuing path of "E", the unit found a new unit "K". What happens?

    I hope that you can help me to better understand these situations.

    I am asking these questions because I would like to exploit a couple of units of skinks in order to make a strong enemy cavalry to fail the charge and then charge them back with a heavy hitting unit (e.g. cold one knights or kroxigors)

    Thank you in advance!
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  2. pendrake
    Skink Priest

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    I think that declaring a charge against S1 forced E to take action that makes most of question 2 and 3 moot.

    From memory:

    The trooper on the extreme right edge of E, let us call her e10, she moves first. e10 Wheels about 3 or 4 inches. This was required. e1 remains stationary. The wheeled distance counts as part of the charge move. Unit E stops wheeling once it is aimed squarely at S1 and will miss S2. If E cannot catch the fleeing S1 it plows forward the failed charge distance.

    S2 is no longer in its charge path and there is no possibility of redirecting.

    I think.

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    What I remember for certain was that in Sixth it was very wise to mark the exact position of the back edge of a unit that was trying to charge. Before moving anything. So that recalculating where it ended up and how far it ultimately went was convenient and accurate.

    A row of dice was useful. -Or- I used to build little terrain pieces (boulders on round figure bases) to use as markers.
     
  3. blueslevin
    Jungle Swarm

    blueslevin New Member

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    Dear Pendrake,

    thank you very much for getting back to me!

    Yes, I see your point. I think that you are right, unit E should wheel in the direction of S1. However, if S1 is successful in escaping the charge, then E can redirect the charge to S2 starting from its initial position. I understand that the charge should be redirected considering the initial position from page 53 of BRB. Can you confirm that?

    By the way, let's simplify the situation and let's consider that S1, S2 and K are on the same line:

    .......[ e e e e e e e e e e]
    ..................... |
    ..................... |
    .....................v
    s1 s1 s1 s1 s1 s1 s1 s1 s1
    s2 s2 s2 s2 s2 s2 s2 s2 s2
    ...........[k k k k k k]

    What would happen in this situation if:
    E charges S1
    S1 flee and passes behind S2 and K
    E redirect the charge through S2
    S2 flee and passes behind K

    Would E fail the charge?
    Is any of my units destroyed?

    Thank you very much for your support!
     
  4. pendrake
    Skink Priest

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    Cautionary note: my memories of 6th are dim and faded.

    I believe you are correct about this:
    I was positive it was really, really, incredibly, important to mark the initial position. And that is why.

    I think the foe get just the one redirect. So, if you have your distance correct all hands safe (the Krox are far enough back, they’d be safe but the Skinks might keep running and ultimately scarper).

    If the Krox are in too close and the measured charge distance for E would hit them...I honestly don’t remember what should happen. Possibly, E has to stop 1 inch away —or— E plows into K.
     
  5. blueslevin
    Jungle Swarm

    blueslevin New Member

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    Thank you for your support!!

    Yes, I am not sure about that as well. If this was a pursuit, as described at page 75 in the rulebook, E would charge K. However, I believe that this is not considered a pursuit, but it is a charge attempt. Thus, as described at page 53, the charge can be redirected only 1 time.
    I am relatively confident on this interpretation. What do you think?

    However, what I need to confirm is what happens to S1 and S2 if they roll a result that would be insufficient to run away from E in the open field, but the result is enough to escape behind friendly unit K. What do you think?

    Thank you again!
     
  6. pendrake
    Skink Priest

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure the result was they get caught.


    Always seemed like an idiotic abstraction to me (...which is why I sorta remember it.)
     
  7. blueslevin
    Jungle Swarm

    blueslevin New Member

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    Thank you very much guys for all your comments!

    This topic was so intense among my friends that I decided to contact directly the author of the article "Fleeing" in Annual 2002. [​IMG]
    And he replied me! [​IMG]

    He said that there are two stages to charges and flees:
    1. Compare the distances and see if the unit is caught
    2. Move the models
    In this case he thinks that my unit would be caught and destroyed. However, he did not replied on the second part. Even if the S1 get destroyed, is "E" considered to charge also "K".

    What do you think?
    Thank you again guys for your help!
     
    Scalenex likes this.
  8. blueslevin
    Jungle Swarm

    blueslevin New Member

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    Hi guys,
    An update after some time...
    I write because I have seen that another user from the forum is playinjg the 6th edition!;)

    Annual 2004:
    "Question: Can a unit redirect a charge against an enemy unit that it could ave originally charged?
    Answer: No. You can only redirect a charge against a unit if you could not have declared a charge against them normally, but can now do so due to the enemy fleeing"

    ---

    In any case, what I wrote in the previous post appears to be wrong. The correct sequence for charging is the following:

    Charge Sequence:
    1. Declare charge
    2. Declare and resolve charge reaction. In the case of Flee: turn and roll for flee distance & move fleeing unit
    3. Resolve charge:
    a. Double your movement value
    b. Measure distance to target
    b.1. If 2xM< distance: failed charge
    b.2. If 2xM> distance: move charger
    b.2.1. Charger contacts target - target destroyed
    b.2.1 Charger fails to contact target - failed charge

    The charger needs to come into actual contact with the fleeing unit he charged. If he cannot because of intervening units or terrain, it will result in a failed charge.
     

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