Wondering with the new coherency changes which weapon option to go with for the Aggradon Lancers? Just bought them and can't decide which one would be more efficient in the current state of the game.
If I recall correctly they actually math out to very similar damage outputs. I would still lean towards clubs as hit roll debuffs are reasonbly common nowadays, and this make the 4+ roll needed of the spears look a bit grim.
You think Hoarfrost will make enough of a difference? I like the idea of it but being too reliant on it might be a bad call. Not sure.
Maybe. We get Hoarfrost off more reliably than most because the Slann is a good caster. I'm not sure aggradrons would be my chosen target for the spell though - it looks better on units like Chargers or even Warriors with spears in my opinion.
I like the way the spears look but the math(ignoring hoarfrost) slightly favors clubs, spears are slightly better on a 2+, on a 3+ they break even and anything worse then that clubs do more, that being said besides on a 6+ save it isn't a hugely significant amount. Factoring in hoarfrost I think would buff the clubs even more since a 1 or 2 would be an equal damage boost buffing the mounts as the spears and a 3 would be better on the rend of clubs then the other options.
Clubs and Spears are close, as you said, with clubs outperforming spears on 4+ saves and higher, and spears found better against 2+ saves, and 3+ saves being identical. But that pattern can change with buffs. For example, add in All Out Attack or another +1 to hit and the breakeven moves to 4+ saves, with spears now being better on a 3+ save. Clubs does better even on a 2+ save if Serpent Staff is used on the Lancers. Damage your enemy with a Spawn of Chotec's Glob of Flame Acid (-1 to save), the the break even becomes 2+, with clubs outperforming spears at 3+ and higher. The differences are small, but they get magnified the more you buff the Aggradons. The 2" range of spears could sometimes make a difference though. Sometimes you may be able to hit a screen with the Aggradons' bites and hit the unit behind the screen with the spears; something unlikely to happen with clubs. Hoarfrost isn't the most potent buff on Aggradons, as they already have good rend and accuracy. But if you were to use it, you get the most value by boosting the clubs to rend -3 or the spears to hit to 1+ or 2+.
While true, you cannot reliably count on that damage. That buff is good but you can't be sure it will trigger when you need it.
It was just an arbitrary example of a -1 save modifier. The post was not about the salamander. I could have easily chosen the purple sun.
Oh yes, I don’t disagree with your main point, it was just that i wasn't fond of that particular example.
Since the damage output is nearly the same ( never count Hoarfrost in your calculation ) i would prefer spears for the xtra range. even with the new rule of 6 it can be difficult to get all six in 1 inch range. example terrain, charge role, positioning, other units in the way and more. How many of those bad boys did you guys get?
I figured that clubs have a small advantage with the numbers most of the time, and that difference gets magnified as the unit is buffed. But spears has that reach advantage, which could be important against smaller units and single models. And against many single models with 3+ saves that can be easily buffed to 2+, the spears numbers look better. So I see the clubs as having an edge against most units of many enemies, and spears having an edge against many heros and monsters. If bringing all 12, I would try to deploy them with those jobs in mind. But the difference is small.
that in mind i like the spears more. i think warriors, raptodons and Kroxigors do all a good job vs most units. tanky heros and monsters is something to consider. If Aggrodons can handle difficult targets, that is what i would use them for.
This is why I'm a fan of spears as well. Sooo many units in other armies are sitting on a 3+ or even a 2+ save. Saurus Warriors and Kroxigors both do really well vs. standard 4+ or 5+ save infantry, so I plan to use Aggradons more as an anti-elite unit. Our army in general still has pretty weak armor saves, with only a few units on a 3+ and one on a 2+. With our mortal wound output basically nonexistent outside of Kroak having some high-rend units is going to be almost necessary to get through those tough units that throw all-out-defense on and only fail saves on 1s or 2s. I'm also planning on getting 12, will probably build them all with spears.
I'm a spears person as far as rules go i like to use any range advantage i can get typically. Subtle things like better choices for pile ins , general board traffic, terrain often get overlooked when looking at number crunching. As far as models go i hate how many broken spears i end up with over time. Now i 3d print extra spears i can cut n paste haha
The trouble is that most of the damage comes from the mount, which still has a 1" range. Spears can help, but if you can get them all within 1", you'll want to.
so far I've been using them in paired six packs, but toe to tail screen style, absorb and counter punch only time I lost 3 models(almost 4 {18w}) was to giants.2 units of aggradons engaged in combat is kind of a retreat or die situation. its a form of board control makes an annoying doesnt die screen so far i've had great success with it though im unsure on shooty armies i haven't faced one yet