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8th Ed. An unofficial 9th Edition - Brainstorming Thread

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Discussion' started by Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. hardyworld

    hardyworld Active Member

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    At some point a long time ago I made a wishlist for what 9th Ed. of Warhammer Fantasy would look like. Mostly as a thought exercise, I expanded on how rules would be different for different sized games (I grouped games into 4 distinct categories) and toyed with Command abilities from non-magic focused characters and how to implement them. I won't include all those ramblings here, but below is a skeleton list of items to be addressed to improve Warhammer Fantasy 8th Ed. into a whole new 9th Edition. Maybe some of these will help you elevate your ruleset to the next level.

    Generally, I thought 8th Ed. was the best version of Warhammer yet. While still flawed, the game and the fantasy world deserved a better fate than what GW did to it. I'm thankful for The End Times send off that GW gave us; it was also flawed, but fun both in gameplay and story.

    1. Corrections/clarifications to the rulebook as included in the 8th Ed. FAQ and other general language cleanup.

    2. More emphasis on smaller games (300-1000 pts). More basic rules for Legendary Battles (4000+ point games). Deeper rules for team battles (2 vs. 2, 2 vs. 1, 3 vs. 1, etc.) that may include some basic elements from Triumph and Treachery. Maybe with the possibility that allied armies can become outright hostile toward each other in certain scenarios (as result of fickle alliance in combination with currently winning the battle against opponent).

    3. Winds of Magic scales well for different size games. Brawl (0-150 pts)-no magic phase. Skirmish (150-750 pts)-Roll 2D6 and the number of both Power Dice and Dispel Dice generated equal the lower D6 value (max number of dice in the phase is 5). Battle (750-4000 pts.)-Roll 2D6 and the number of Power Dice equals the sum of the dice, Dispel Dice equals the higher D6 value (max number of dice in the phase is 15). Legendary Battle (4000+ pts)-Roll 3D6 and the number of Power Dice equals the sum of the dice, Dispel Dice equals the sum of the highest and lowest D6 values (max number of dice in the phase is 25). Each of these levels can be bumped up for battles taking place at times/locations of powerful magic winds (such as End Times Magic).

    4. Channeling attempts succeed on a 5+. All Character/Units that channel roll a number of Channel Dice equal to their magic level. All Power Dice generated by Channeling may only be used by the Channeler. All Dispel Dice generated by Channeling go to the Dispel Pool. This is a throwback to the 7th Ed.

    5. Mage level bonus to cast/dispel is lessened (possibly +0 for lvl1/2 and +1 for lvl3/4). This would increase the usefulness of the lvl 3 mage. Maximum number of Magic Dice rolled by a Mage to cast a spell is equal to (Mage’s Level +2). Bonuses/max dice rolled can be bumped up for battles taking place at times/locations of powerful magic winds (such as End Times Magic).

    6. Minor spell fixes for additional balance. Spell classifications are changed slightly (allowable targets/etc.).

    7. Miscast table takes into account how many dice were rolled when trying to cast the spell (chart is D6+#die rolled where higher numbers on the chart are more destructive).

    8. Cannons and Rock Lobber rules work slightly differently. Different scatter rules, that take into account Ballistic Skill. Cannons scatter their initial target point ‘D6-BS’ inches and then proceed to roll bounce distances as normal.

    9. If a unit loses combat to a Fear-causing enemy unit, then they are -1 Ld for their Break Test. Likewise, if a unit loses combat to a Terror-causing enemy unit, then they are -2 Ld for their Break Test. Not quite the auto-break rules of previous editions, but is a flavorful way to give fear/terror a needed buff.

    10. Regeneration acts as a combination of the 8th Ed. Rules and the Hydra’s regeneration rules (Surviving model that has taken wounds may attempt to Regenerate lost wounds at the end of their turn by rolling a D6 for each accumulated wound suffered and for each 4+ rolled, the model Regenerates a wound lost earlier in the battle; models removed from play may not Regenerate.).

    11. Cavalry get some small bonus (possibly, they can disrupt ranks with only 1 full rank of cavalry).

    12. Breath weapons work differently (Possibly no longer 'one use only', and only activates in close combat on your own turn to do D6 hits.).

    13. Magic Resistance works differently. Roll a D6 for every level of magic resistance a unit has when any spell effect would apply to the unit, friend or foe, if any '6' is rolled the spell effect doesn't affect the unit. (Rare things may cause you to reroll any successful MR rolls, such as the effects of a Miscast). Maximum Magic Resistance is still 3. Magic Resistance is not rolled until after all dispel attempts have been declared. Now that Magic Resistance works against all spells, it’s much easier to balance.

    14. Charge reactions are allowed against models with Random Movement, but only if the unit passes a leadership (or maybe initiative?) test first.

    15. Monsters & Handlers rules are simplified and cleaned up, or possibly just scrapped entirely to simplify game rules.

    16. Characters on Ridden Monsters work slightly differently (possibly normal shooting & template weapons are distributed on monster on 1-5, and on character on a 6). Characters ridding monsters that have their mount killed out from under them immediately take a S5 hit, but otherwise play as normal as an infantry model. A character on a flying mount may join units of fliers with the same mount type.

    17. Fragile Alliances aren't nearly as fickle. Roll a single D6 at the end of the alliance’s side (not each player). If the sum the current turn number and the D6 is greater than or equal to the highest leadership of the fragile alliance’s highest leadership surviving character, then distrust has grown between the armies and the alliance takes one step down in their alliance trust. Maybe with the possibility that allied armies can become outright hostile toward each other in certain scenarios (as result of fickle alliance in combination with currently winning the battle against opponent).

    18. Victory Points are calculated slightly differently (possibly 1/2 points for units, but not models). Return of more Victory types (Narrow Victory/Loss). Range of Draw/Narrow Victory/Victory/Crushing Victory is defined by percentage of point difference divided by smaller army size (0%-10% Draw, 10%-20% Narrow Victory, 20%-35% Devastating Victory, 35%-50% Crushing Victory, 50%-65% Annihilating Victory, 65%+ Massacre).

    19. The inconsistent term 'unmodified leadership' is removed from the game and a clear term and rules take its place (such as 'Profile Leadership' which is the value in a model's statline).

    20. If a Steadfast unit has a unit in its flank or rear, then its break test is taken at -1 Ld. This only applies if the Steadfast unit itself is being attacked in the Flank/Rear (not if another friendly unit in the same combat is combatted in its flank or rear).

    21. Bound spells always use exactly 1 Power Die to cast; add the rolled value to the Bound Spell's Power level. A roll of a '1' does not cast and subsequently roll a D6 on a bound item miscast chart (chance for: no additional effect, bearer takes damage, or item to no longer cast bound spells).

    22. Rework the Common Magic Items list to better balance the point costs as needed (Crown of Command, Standard of Discipline, etc.) and replace lesser used items with new ones.

    23. In challenges, attacks that have its hits distributed as shooting still distribute as shooting; however, the FIRST hit automatically hits the challenger, all subsequent hits from an attack distribute as normal.

    24. In challenges, an attacking character can always apply all their attacks within a challenge in an attempt at maximizing their overkill. This is so attacks at lower initiative are not lost and gameplay fully meets the purpose/theme of the overkill rule. These attacks automatically hit (they are attacks against a dead character after all).

    25. Conga-line strategy is removed from the game (skirmishers in forest, WoC Chosen, etc.) by limiting the rank-to-file ratio. Units that consist of multiple models may never finish the movement phase with their rank-to-file ratio greater than 1:4. So a unit of swarms with 4 models could all be in a line, but once you add a 5th swarm to the unit, its frontage must be at least 2 wide.

    26. By default, provide infantry (and monstrous infantry) characters who have not joined a unit with the benefits of the skirmish special rule (mostly for the benefit of characters shooting with ranged weapons and for the -1 to hit by enemies).

    27. Give spears an additional bonus in CC when a unit wielding these are charged in their front (possibly, units that charge units equipped with spears in their front take an impact hit, at the spear-man's strength, for each file of spear-man they are in base to base contact with). This should make the trade for spears-&-shield vs. hand-weapon-&-shield slightly fairer for units where there is no cost difference between the equipment options.

    28. Thunderstomp attacks may target enemy units with the Stomp special rule in the form of a single stomp hit. This would 'step down' the Thunderstomp attacks the same way Terror is lowered to Fear when engaging enemy units that cause Fear.

    29. Clean up the characters section concerning declaring charges out of a unit. This is so that multiple characters may declare charges out of the unit (if desired).

    30. Clean up random moment issues concerning the initial wheel-in-place before movement and how it is affected by the 1" rule and charging units in its flank (Make the 'virtual pivot' required as long as the unit’s resulting position, after moving, on the battlefield is legal.).

    31. Require charging fliers to 'close the door' while mid-air so that both fliers and units charged by them can both not take positional advantage by requiring the 'close the door' wheel on the ground. This will help maximize models in close combat every time. (Again, the 'virtual pivot' is required as long as the unit’s resulting position on the battlefield is legal.)

    32. When a unit fails a charge attempt, they move toward their intended charge target equal to the higher D6 value rolled plus half their movement value (rounding up).

    33. Clarify and change the frenzy rule. At the end of the declare chargers phase, if a unit with the frenzy rule did not declare a charge they must measure to see if any enemy units are within charge range and within LOS, if so they must take a leadership test and if failed they are subject to the Random Movement (2D6, plus Swiftstride if applicable) rule for the remainder of the Phase and must move toward the closest enemy unit within LOS during the Compulsory Move Sub-Phase.

    34. Unengaged Skirmish units that are charged automatically turn to face their charger. Adjusting their front rank to meet the charging unit before the charging unit moves into base contact.

    35. More formations available to units (other than Horde), formations can only be changed via a reform action. A unit may not be in more than 1 formation at one time. Example:

    Shield-Wall Formation: unit cannot charge/march/shoot/pursue, but enemies are -1 to hit the unit in close combat and shooting, and the unit is Immune to Psychology; units with Random Movement or Berserker may not be in this formation. To take this formation, the unit must be: infantry/monstrous infantry, equipped with shields, at least 10 models wide; once in this formation, the unit will retain this formation until it reforms or breaks regardless of how many models are removed.

    Blood-Rage Formation: Unit gains Spite, Murderous Strike, and Skirmish special rules. Only units that are normally rank & file units that have a musician and have broken from combat in this game may take this formation. This unit has a -1 Ld modifier while in this formation.

    36. Single model units that are infantry, warbeast, cavalry, swarms, monstrous infantry, monstrous cavalry, or monstrous beasts have a 180 degree LOS and frontal arc for declaring charges.

    37. A unit may attempt to Retreat from combat in the Compulsory Movement subphase (not an option for Undead and Deamonic units). To do so, the unit must first take a Leadership test. If the test is failed, then the unit does not Retreat and is (-1 WS) in the subsequent Close Combat phase. If passed, the unit retreats, moving exactly as if the unit had Broke Combat. Enemy units in combat with the unit may pursue if unengaged. If the Retreating unit is not caught in pursuit of its retreat, it may immediately take a rally test.

    38. Allow units that have redirected a charge declaration to redirect back onto their original charge target as their 2nd redirect charge action (when declaring a 2nd redirect charge target in a phase, they may ONLY select their original charge target as their 2nd redirect charge reaction) (eliminates the double flee ‘tactic’ that works around the game mechanics, although requires the unit to pass another redirection leadership test).

    39. To-Wound chart change: If a Unit’s Strength is 6 less than the Toughness of their target, then they cannot wound them (S1 cannot wound T7+, S2 cannot wound T8+, etc.)

    40. Charging units gain +1 Initiative and +1 Combat Resolution.

    41. Constant support from GW to help internally and externally the armies with small rules changes and point cost adjustments for units after initial publication (as needed). This goes beyond the infrequent Errata and FAQ support from past editions; updates are provided every 6 months throughout the publication cycle.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  2. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    Thought I’d Necromance this thread as I’ve been thinking about this with renewed vigour. Even though TOW is coming, I’m still seeing how I can glow-up Fantasy in case it flops. I’ve taken a new approach in keeping 8th largely as it is but replacing the poor elements of it with superior equivalents from 7th (magic items being mainly race-specific rather than generic as that was lazy, cannons being more balanced, Fear and Terror being more effective, e.t.c), kicking out the Horde rule and planning to spice things up a bit with a couple of gems left in 6th, alongside additional developments of my own. Specifics to follow!
    ASSASSIN_NR_1 likes this.

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