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8th Ed. Favorite Unit

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Discussion' started by ASSASSIN_NR_1, Aug 21, 2022.

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What is your favorite unit?

  1. Saurus Warriors

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  2. Skink Cohort

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Skink Skirmishers

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Jungle Swarms

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Bastiladon

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Chameleon Skinks

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Cold One Riders

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Kroxigor

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Ripperdactyl Riders

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Terradon Riders

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Stegadon

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. Temple Guard

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. Salamander Hunting Pack

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  14. Razordon Hunting Pack

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  15. Troglodon

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  16. Ancient Stegadon

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  17. Slann Mage-Priest

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  18. Skink Priest

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  19. Skink Chief

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  20. Saurus Scar-Veteran/Saurus Oldblood

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  1. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Carnasaur

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    I just got curious and wondered which one of our units is generally the most popular.
    I'm not going to limit whether it is only in regards to rules, models, lore or anything else one might think of, just what in general is your guys favorite.

    One thing I'm not allowing is Special Characters (but maybe another such poll could be made).

    I for my part love the various types of Saurus and the Carnosaur (though the Carnosaur isn't quite a unit on its own, so I can't really choose that), and the top spot there would go to the Oldblood.

    Note: I combined Scar Vet and Oldblood, as there were not enough responses available, and the seemed the most similar :(
     
  2. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    This is an easy decision for me. It's the Slann Mage-Priest by a country mile. The Slann were my single biggest reason for starting a Lizardmen army. The model is still my favorite to this day (reminds of the Super Mario bros. 2 character Wart). I love the fact that they are the most powerful wizards in lore and they are solid on the battlefield. What's not to love?
     
  3. shattershell
    Saurus

    shattershell Active Member

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    I've always loved Skink Chiefs, not because of their competitive efficiency, but because of their overall vibe. Skinks are so cute and fun, and the idea of the bravest and fiercest Skink boye just doing his best is so lovable.
     
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  4. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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  5. Imrahil
    Slann

    Imrahil Thirtheenth Spawning

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    Somehow Lizardmen brings to mind the spiky quadruple lizards: Razordons
    Also in one of the first AoS battlereps I watched they were a powerhouse.

    I never played them and do not quite know how they play in 8th, but I really like the fact that they hail down spikes at their enemies enjoys me :)

    Grrr, Imrahil
     
  6. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    I went for the ancient stegadon.
    We are here for lizards riding dinosaurs and the stegadon has always been my favorite one.
     
  7. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    Mine's got to be something Saurus-oriented, I started Lizardmen for the hench Lizard warriors capable of tearing a man apart with their bare hands.

    I think it's got to be standard Saurus Warriors, a solid Core unit that I find to be very underrated by players who prefer the cowardly tactic of Skink clouds. I've had games where one unit of 16 of these beasts have tanked units of Skaven or Goblins at least double their number, and they're also a threat to stronger Core troops like Dwarf Warriors and Elf Spearmen/Dreadspears/Eternal Guard (don't talk to me about bloody Chaos Warriors though :sour:). I always pack in my two units of 18 and 20 with Spears and Hand Weapons and Shields respectively when I field my Cold-Blooded army. It's BS that they're so much weaker in AoS, one of the main reasons why I never considered fielding my Lizardmen in that game.

    Honourable mentions go to Temple Guard (bigger Saurus with bigger weapons, more expensive though), Saurus Cavalry (knight-level cavalry unit that can do a lot of damage if used right, pricey though like Temple Guard), Saurus Scar-Veterans/Oldbloods (biggest Saurus with biggest and best weapons, solid melee characters that have been able to stand up to a unit of Maneaters in my gaming past), Carnosaurs, Stegadons and Bastiladons (the latter two are crewed by Skinks, but are still dinosaurs so are always a win for just making your army look great, it's what the Lizardman army is meant to look like).
     
  8. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Mine is Carnosaur. Well, Oldblood riding Carnosaur I guess. But specifically the Carnosaur.

    Not for gameplay, although it does have it's uses against multi-wound armies.

    It's just that I've always had a massive softspot for the T-Rex. This was the main closing point for me collecting Lizardmen in the first place. Followed in a close second by the Ancient Stegadon (who would have been my favourite as it is basically a Triceratops which is being ridden by other lizards, AWESOME, and is a solid must-include in my opinion on any game with enough points to field it.)
     
  9. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Still on your crusade?

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    While it is true that they fared poorly against the elites of most other races in your tourney (fortunately for the game's balance), it is still undeniable that they dominate against most other races' Core choices, including Saurus, a little too much for my liking, hence my comment. It certainly wouldn't hurt to tone Chaos Warriors down a smidge, perhaps just by increasing their points value a little so that they are more likely to be taken in smaller elite units, or if the WoC player insists on fielding them as a big ugly horde, they would have less room for other more OP choices like Skullcrushers.
     
  11. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Their points cost was their undoing in the tourney. If you raised their cost, all you would see is chariot spam or Throgg led core trolls instead!

    Only up to the core limit. Competitive players aren't going to cut into their Skullcrusher/Chimera/DP/etc allowance to field M4 infantry.


    I guess I'm glad that you aren't the one writing the Warriors of Chaos army book. :p
     
  12. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    You could be sure that if I had written the Warriors of Chaos book, I would certainly have placed more of an emphasis on keeping things balanced:
    • Warriors would have had something done to them to make them less spammable and make a balance between them and Marauders more appealing, and make Chosen an appealing option again
    • Gorebeast Chariots would have been made more expensive (and moved to Rare)
    • Chaos Chariots would be moved to Special (Warriors of Chaos were never renowned in lore for being a Chariot army, so why should they be able to spam them?)
    • Throgg would only be allowed to have one Chaos Troll unit in Core at most, the rest would remain in Special
    • Characters would have to pay for their Chaos Mutations as part of their regular 100 point Magic Item allowance (to avoid broken shit like the uber-Daemon Princes and Hortennse Lords - I don't know why GW didn't learn from the mistakes they made in 5th Edition here with 'Herohammer')
    • I'm sure I can think of other stuff as well, though I would discuss all my changes with the community, something I'm doing right now with my Beastman 8th book, because I would want to make sure everything would be fun as well as being an improvement over what GW wrote.
    In short you'd be able to kiss the all-stomping OP WoC army list goodbye, and say hello to a force more fun for others to play against as well as to use.

    And don't worry, I would also swing the nerf-bat at Dark Elves and High Elves to take them down a peg or two as well if, in some alternative universe, people were ever to choose my works over 'official' sources, alongside my existing missions to boost the weaker armies. I would not discriminate against one specific upper-tier army, I want to bring balance to the Warhammer Force, not leave it in darkness ;)

    Also, as an aside, why's the Chimera so lauded when so many other monsters aren't? It doesn't seem to have anything special as part of its rules, it's just as vulnerable as others when it comes to Cannons and it can't spam attacks in the league that Dark Elf Hydras can.
     
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  13. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Like I said, I'm glad you weren't the one to write the WoC army book. I might have quit Warhammer altogether :p. Not to dismiss your talent or effort, but since we generally disagree about 99% of the time, it would stand to reason that I would disagree with about 99% of your rule changes. That said, I'm sure others love your rules and are excited to play them. Different strokes for different folks. No disparagement intended, but I just view the game (and army) differently.


    And I guess Witch Elves, Executioners, Savage Orcs, Black Guard, Hammerers and While Lions (who all placed better in the tourney) along with them. The problem is that infantry fared worse than the rest of the unit types in the contest. All of them would have to be nerfed too.

    So you would nerf the Warriors to oblivion and remove our other core choice. So we'd be stuck with overcosted infantry and average chaff.

    With this, along with your other core changes, we'd pretty much be dealing with the Troll-star in every competitive list. A real rock-paper-scissors setup.


    It wouldn't do that much for the DP, who gets 100 pts of gifts and only 25pts of magic items. Plus the same would have to be done to the Vampires (which I'm sure you won't mind since you hate them). I guess you'd have to limit the magic item allowance for the Dwarfs as well (and maybe do away with their runic system... which is far better and more customizable than that of any other army).

    IF you really wanted to inhibit the uber characters, you'd be better off reducing Hortennse's ward save to 4++ (instead of 3++). As for the DP, just make him unstable instead of pure unbreakable.



    With all this taken together, you'd be neutering the CC potential of the army. They would essentially lose the very thing they are supposed to be great at. Why would I play an army that has virtually no shooting, average magic and average leadership if it doesn't gain some benefit elsewhere (namely CC)? It would be like playing a vanilla Dwarf army with neutered shooting.


    I can think of five reasons off the top of my head:
    • It comes out of Special as opposed to Rare (like many of the other top tier monsters)
    • It has the Fly special rule. In a game largely determined by movement, flying is a mini cheat code.
    • It is more protected from cannons because of its regeneration save of 4+ (which is an upgrade that everyone gets for a mere 15 points). Yes, there are flaming cannons, but now those cannons are near useless against a DP or Hortennse who will certainly have a Dragonbane Gem or Dragon Helm. So one way or another, the potential effect of the cannon is at least blunted. Still dangerous, but not nearly as threatening as it would be against a Stegadon or Carnosaur.
    • It has a great attack output. It averages 8 attacks at S6 + Thunderstomps. Not a K'daai Destroyer, but still very dangerous... especially on such a mobile monster.
    • Synergy (the Flying Circus). One Chimera might not be that scary. But what about a flying DP/Hortennse backed up by two of these guys? On a multi-charge they are devastating.

    Let me put it this way. Should we ever play a game against one another (and no we are not using your custom rules!!), you can...
    • triple the cost of my Warriors and move them to Special
    • triple the cost of my Chariots and move them to Special
    • triple the cost of my Chosen and move them to rare
    but... in exchange I get to field Chimera out of CORE. :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2022
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  14. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Thoughts?

    I'm going to take your silence as a refusal of the terms I laid out. :cool:
     
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  15. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    I've never faced a Chimera, so i cannot give any insight.
    However, your line of reasoning seems fine.
     
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  16. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Somehow I missed that Regen upgrade. That makes the monster very vicious.

    Are there any other monsters I missed this on? I know about the K'Daai Destroyer (HUZZAH!!!) and Kroq-Gar's mount has a 5+ ward save while he's alive.
     
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  17. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Do you mean in terms of monsters with regen or ward saves?
    • terrorgheist has a 6+ regen
    • Treeman has a 6+ ward
    • Forest Dragons have a 6+ ward
    • Flamespyre Phoenix and Frostheart Phoenix have 5+ ward saves
    • Hellcannon has a 5+ ward save
    • Mutalith Vortex Beast has a 5+ regen
    • HPA has a 4+ regen
    • Daemons of Chaos monsters have their 5+ ward
    Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. There may be a few more.
     
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