1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

AoS [ GHB 2019 ] Tournament list Theorycraft

Discussion in 'Seraphon Army Lists' started by Aktanolt, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. Aktanolt
    Cold One

    Aktanolt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    255
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Hey fellow lizards, start working on lists with new GHB. I think fangs can do stuff but the list have no real answer to all the strike first stuff, will try to work on it for later.
    To me this edition, our strengh is in shooting, control and potentially magic ( endless spell ) since we can get +2 with slaan and astrolith.
    Also lots of lists will have those endless so one dropping can be prettyy usefull i think ( more than before )
    Here is my first shot :

    Allegiance: Seraphon
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    - General
    - Trait: Great Rememberer
    - Spell lore ; Stellar Tempest

    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    Engine of the Gods (240)
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
    - Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    - Spell lore ; Mystical Unforging
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    - Spell lore ; Celestial Apotheosis
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances
    10 x Skinks (70)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    3 x Razordons (120)
    3 x Razordons (120)
    Troglodon (160)
    Dracothion's Tail (80)
    Firelance Starhost (150)
    Aethervoid Pendulum (50)
    Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
    Purple Sun of Shyish (50)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 2
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 108

    Choices :

    - Slaan with Great remenberer : Double safe teleport to throw a starpriest and baking him, or project razordons. He will get the anti horde spell so he can switch to meteoric convocation if no valid target. He'll use to cast 1/2 spell and summon skinks aside.

    - 2 starpriests : they are the spell throwers, they got the anti artifact spell just for the psychological threat. Also the heal = -1 bravery can combo well with other bravery debuff ( Sun, Cav banner,Troglol ? )

    - Astrolith bearer : really gained in this edition to me, we'll throw more spell and he allows some good boost range to anti horde / snipe spell. Also reroll hits for razordon combo with the reroll 1 to wound command. He got Rectrices because of key support piece. Also d3 CP to help the slaan.

    - Scar vet on Cold one : Because of Firelance :D Maybe he'll get an upgrade to carno instead of Troglodon, so he'll have offensive artifact. Else, probably a betrayer crown bearer.

    - Engine of the gods : Despite price increase, i think we can stiff fit one in lists, potential 20 skinks pop or the d6 MW snipe,, will pop in range !

    - 3*5 Saurus cav : Bat requirement

    - 10 skinks : to screen after the pop from battalion

    - 2*3 Razordon : the anti strike first menace , shoot them down !!

    - Troglodon : What to do with 140 lasts points, i dont know :D we are here to talk about it !!

    - Endless spells :
    Purple sun : Because we can port a Starpriest, launch it and say ' Goodluck with that "
    Aethervoid pendulum : See above :D
    Geminids : It's just here to make the enemy hesitate between this and sun when we comes to priority rolls

    DRACOTHION TAIL : It's here for the one drop, and being able to have every shooting / cast in range turn 1.I'll deploy Slaan, 3 razordons, 2*5 Cav , 1 starpriest and the Scar vet. In reserve Astrolith, 3 razordons, 1 starpriest, 10 skinks , the engine and 5 cav .
    Wont keep Troglodon i think so the deployment can change a bit . I'm open to option with him as with artifact choices aside from Rectrices on Astrolith.

    Will try this tomorrow and come back with further opinions !!

    Have a scally day .
     
    Aginor and LizardWizard like this.
  2. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,394
    Likes Received:
    2,795
    Trophy Points:
    113
    List looks nice but I've got some questions.

    I'm not certain about spell choice. Slann should always concentrate on CCP generation, so he'd better go with less important spell like Apotheosis. Unforging, from another hand, will instantly become uselss, when you break enemy's artefact. So I'd go with Apotheosis/Unforging on Slann, so you can shift it, depending on situation, while Starpriest bombard enemy with Stellar Tempest/Meteoric convocation.

    Realm Artefacts are better choice too, if you play with Malign Sorcery. I didn't find Rectrices reliable. Gryph-Feather Charm or Miasmatic Blade on Astrolith will serve him better. Also, you field like 1600 pts against 2000 pts army and you already have mortal wounds in a form of Seraphon lore spells. I'd ditch Geminids/Pendulum and add take Vortex/Cogs instead for more reliable charges/summoning. Sun for 50 points is great though. Your opponent may wish to turtle up to protect valuable units from charges after teleport, and Sun can cause quite some damage.

    Finally, I'd take 3 Ripperdactyl instead of Trogg. They are a bit more squishy but more moblie and brings toad with them. Toad is additional pressure and EotG can summon more ripperdactyl which ca utilize it later.
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  3. Aktanolt
    Cold One

    Aktanolt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    255
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Hey , thx for your input !
    - Spell choice is something new to us and you might be right on this matter.

    -Also yes, slaan will probably got one of the defensive artifact. The last one will depends , on the Eotg or on the scar vet on CO or Carno. However, i think keeping Pendulum is key, we want real magic threat, however dropping geminids is a thing but i dont think cogs worth the 80 points now for another spell, also i dont really need the charge bonus as a shooty army. It can only be usefull if i take the ripper but might be more usefull for my enemy than me

    -An option is dropping the geminids, the trog so i got Balewind, 3 salamanders and 3 handlers. It's a 6 razordons + 3 salamanders rerolling hits, and maybe 1 to wound, turn one, + between 10 and 20 skinks summoned and 1/2 endless dropped.

    -Rippers are also a good option but i wonders if they worth it. Only got 1 Eotg and as my slaan might cast a bit , i'l lack skinks on board so i think more about summoning skinks with engine. Maybe i'm wrong , will try it out
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  4. RandomScrub2
    Saurus

    RandomScrub2 Active Member

    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    183
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Any idea how to include lord kroak into this kind of army
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  5. Aktanolt
    Cold One

    Aktanolt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    255
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Well you can drop one razordon unit, a starpriest and the troglodon for him ( also swap balewind instead of geminids) However not sur he worth those changes aside from Trog.
    Maybe i'll try it but in my actual update , i dropped Trog and Geminids for Balewind , 3 salamanders and 3 handlers. So i got 3 salamanders and 6 razordon rerolling hit turn 1 + potential spells.
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  6. General Grivious
    Saurus

    General Grivious Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Hi, someone can explain me the reroll 1 to wound???? I missed something?? XD

    I really like the starpriest with the purple sun "goodluck with that" :D but you forgot the umbind - if you TP Starpriest you loose +1 to cast (Astrolith) and you have 33,33 chance to get +1 wuth constellation :confused: - Maybe with the Slann and the arcane Vassal, but in that case you need Balewind vortex +6" on spells... against death or Skavens they are going to umbind all the spells... I think stay away 30" is our best chances....

    2 Starpirest is maybe to much? I would choose chronomantic instead
     
  7. Aktanolt
    Cold One

    Aktanolt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    255
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Hey General !
    So in order i heard about the 1 wound reroll as a new command ability, apparently i missheard :D
    About the Starpriest and sun combo : First you cant cast Endless spell through arcane vassal ( sadly ) as it count as an extended range. Also Using Dracothian tail , i can place a starpriest and the Astrolith in the sky so they come together, giving me +1 cast, maybe +2 if i got constellation, so it's doable !
    In the end, i think cogs are good only if you use it for +2 move , which i wont. Also 2 starpriest will be used for many purpose, i can put some in danger, multibuff Cold ones , and also bein able to cast Sun + Pendulum in the same turn !
     
  8. General Grivious
    Saurus

    General Grivious Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Thnx a lot for answear :D
    The reroll 1 wound is very interresting and its a shame that the vassal cant be used for endless spells :(

    I like very much the idea, but for me its impossible to play with because i often play against Nagash or Verminlords with +3/+2 to umbind and if i use the 2 tp to be in range its sure that the Starpriest and Astrolith are going to dead xD (going nothing T.T)

    Once i tried a funny list based on magic and i loose (it was so fun xD but i loose :v) - hope that our New BT make umore stronger in magic Seraphons !!!!
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  9. Aktanolt
    Cold One

    Aktanolt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    255
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Time to test the list, will debrief afterward !
     
  10. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,845
    Likes Received:
    3,388
    Trophy Points:
    113
    One correction, you cannot stack the "Serpent Staff" buff from multiple Starpriests. the wording is "Twice the normal damage" because of that "normal" word in there (which any judge will tell you refers to the baseline warscroll damage) it prevents stacking. twice the normal (if normal is 2) is 4. (that would then be the buffed damage) the second ability use would be 2x the normal (2) damage for 4. it just doesn't work because of wording. It SHOULD say, double the Damage characteristic of Bite/Jaw attacks on a 6 to hit. then it would be stackable (and nuts in some cases; two starpreists on full health Dread? 24 damage an attack? YES PLEASE!)
     
  11. Aktanolt
    Cold One

    Aktanolt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    255
    Trophy Points:
    63
    @ILKAIN : I know about the non stacking serpent staff , it was just about the fact that they can buff multiple units of Cav :p

    Also i finally tried this list :

    Allegiance: Seraphon
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    - General
    - Trait: Great Rememberer
    - Spell lore ; Stellar Tempest

    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    Engine of the Gods (240)
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
    - Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    - Spell lore ; Mystical Unforging
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    - Spell lore ; Celestial Apotheosis
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances
    10 x Skinks (70)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    3 x Razordons (120)
    3 x Salamanders (120)
    3 x Razordons (120)
    3 x Skinks handlers ( 40)
    Dracothion's Tail (80)
    Firelance Starhost (150)
    Aethervoid Pendulum (50)
    Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
    Purple Sun of Shyish (50)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 2
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 108

    Faced new sylvaneth on new Knife to the heart. She gots 2 durthu , 3 melee Kurnoth, 1 TreeLord Ancient, 2 Branchwraith, a big block of 30 dryads and some Tree revs ( Harvestboon wargrove )

    I Lost the game due to not having enough screen ^^ she rolled high on all damages and get a double so she killed both engines / salamanders and razordon by turn 2 ( She shot me off with thoses trees xD )
    Also i can see some super brutal turn one from this list. i was dumb enough to split my firepower turn one but it was 6 razordons, 3 salamanders firing under Astrolith reroll on some Treelords. Also i didnt managed to land sun , but Pendulum worked and i got the d6 mortal from engine. With all those , i rolled 4 d 6 damages ( mortal + Salamanders ) on a durthu and managed to deal 5 damages :D HAPPENS !!

    However turn 2 , i succeed to cast the sun, and it was gorgeous. between turn 2 and 3 , it managed to kill alone both treelords xD ( 4d6 mortal for each ) and i can see some power in this if i can cast it turn one in the middle of enemy army since i am 9 inch to the enemy force.

    Will try it further !
     
    LizardWizard and ILKAIN like this.
  12. Aktanolt
    Cold One

    Aktanolt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    255
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Hi again, tried another game with this version, feels pretty good, just changed Eotg for an incantor and comet. I think it could be way better and auto unbind will be stronger in ghb 2019. Also not impressed again by sallies ... so i think about this variation, considering tzeentch will come back , and slaanesh is there :

    Allegiance: Seraphon
    Mortal Realm: Ulgu
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    - General
    - Trait: Great Rememberer
    - Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices
    - Spell: Stellar Tempest
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
    - Artefact: Spellmirror
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    - Artefact: Betrayer's Crown
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    - Spell: Stellar Tempest
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    - Spell: Meteoric Convocation
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances
    3 x Razordons (120)
    Bastiladon (280)
    Bastiladon (280)
    Dracothion's Tail (80)
    Firelance Starhost (150)
    Aethervoid Pendulum (50)
    Balewind Vortex (40)
    Purple Sun of Shyish (50)
    Prismatic Palisade (30)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 2
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 83

    what do you think ? Bettet this one or the last ? Also this list got good use of command point for mystic shield bastiladons
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  13. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,848
    Likes Received:
    32,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I just wrote a somehow similar list.
    Here it is, without artefacts that i still need to take.


    Dracothion’s tail (80)

    Slann (Quotek), great rememberer 260
    Astrolith bearer 160
    Skink Starpriest 80
    Skink Starpriest 80

    Firelance Starhost (150)
    ScarVet on CO 100
    3 x 5 Saurus Knights 80
    3 x 5 Saurus Knights 80
    3 x 5 Saurus Knights 80

    -Engine of the Gods 240
    -Stegadon, great bow 200
    -Stegadon, great bow 200
    -3 razordons 120

    Balewind vortex 40
    Purple sun 50



    1 drop list (i love it).
    double starpriest to buff knights and deal with hordes tnx to Purple sun and stellar tempest
    easy teleport and charges with buffed knight and stegadons
    great battlefield control and a 4-spell Slann with EotG to summon


    i am a fan of double basti with rerolls from astrolith bearer, but when i do it, i tend to castle them also with thunderquake, for full reroll.
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  14. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,845
    Likes Received:
    3,388
    Trophy Points:
    113
    im assuming you are planning on sitting back and shooting your opponent? the double Stegadon teleport, skink alpha move, charge with flamers is gonna be sick... just saying :)
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  15. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,848
    Likes Received:
    32,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    that's more or less the plan. Lots of movement, from LoSaT and from the dracothion's drops. I want my opponent to fear the fact that i can hit wherever i want… and if my oponent will castle up to defend himself and don't give me openings, then purple sun all the way!
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  16. Aktanolt
    Cold One

    Aktanolt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    255
    Trophy Points:
    63
    @Killer Angel yep you got the same kind of vibes in list building. I clearly think DT is our new best build way.
    However , i cant decide on the last 500 point. I 100% agree basti are way better in TQ , however between engine / skink nerf, it took a bit of a hit, moreover, you dont get the reroll on basti shots turn 1 , being double turned and you can quite being unable to even shoot what you want or even shoot at all.

    Bastiladon laser can become very good in a future meta where we can't compete the activation war. They are a big threat to keeper , Lord of changes, Verminlord ? , or Terrorgheist.... also with the new command ability they can get permanent mystic shield without affecting our magic phase ( and we have plenty of cp in DT )

    I'd love to have your opinion on Steggies, i dont think they are really usefull by their own, however they can be really good to project bastiladons or ripper summoned,Also they are pretty fragile. Maybe i'm wrong. The flammer can be good in a heavy horde meta, IF you can get in range, maybe good versus Dok or Skaven. I'd love more insights !

    Nothing to say about engine, they are still good :)
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  17. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,845
    Likes Received:
    3,388
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Steggies worth is going to be due to several things happening at once. the price drop (-20) alone isn't worth it. but throw in the fact that now there is no fail, no roll, no movement after LOSAT and the alpha skink ability becomes CLUTCH. Lastly, the advent of a spell lore with 2 decent spells (one of which continues the onslaught against hordes) means that getting an extra Starpriest is actually helpful... star priest costs 80... point difference between Basti and steggy is 80....

    so steggy isn't amazing, and no one of those things makes it a better choice... but ALL of them together do. similar to how Kroak would have been still good if they only hit him with one nerf, instead of nerfing range, max targets, damage, spell value all at the same time, which made him (IMO) almost worthless in a competitive scene.
     
  18. Aktanolt
    Cold One

    Aktanolt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    255
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I totally agree with you on starpriest, they are more awesome than never with new lore / endless , i got two myself !! Also i agree on kroak , he isnt worth the point right now.

    However, i agree all those changes and the point drops makes steggies better, but yet, i cant see what they can do by themselves. I mean aside double teleport in ordre to get one of those in flamer range. Or both to charge, they are not really terrifying alone. Maybe with loads of skinks to do some teleport steal, or rippers, even snake basties ( but we are in other list archetypes here ) . They are good for the Alphas now, but i dont know why you picked those in your list where the only Alpha skink target is themselves. Are they here to move starpriest so they are 3 away to cast endless ? Could be the only tricky thing :D
     
  19. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,848
    Likes Received:
    32,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    OK, steggies.

    First reason why they're good: price reduction. If we don't consider the troglodon, stegadon is our cheapest dino, and that means something.
    Actually we can field a bastiladon or a stegadon AND a starpriest.

    Second reason: they still have our best rend. -3 is solid, and i agree that the attacks with rend -3 are "only" three, with 2 dam each, so it's not that great, but we're still talking about to hit 3+, rerolling 1. Plus 3d6 crushing stomps and the ranged Attacks. Stegadons may be fragile, but their damage output is not a joke.

    Third reason: skink Alpha's ability is actually more good than it has ever been.
    of course, we have the usual trick: LoSaT the stegadon, advance and then charge… the dino is one of our best and more reliable chargers.
    But we have also other tricks: of course, a Stegadon with summoned rippers is massive. Your EotG summon a unit of rippers, the alpha moves them, the rippers attack.
    this is even more good with the Dracothion's tail battalion: Quotek calls a unit of rippers and, given that he fields them during the hero phase (and not at the end of the move phase), the stegadon moves them. This means that a unit of rippers with a stegadon, in a DT, is almost as good as the same unit in a shadowstrike starhost…
    with 2 stegadons you can do the "recycling charge trick", enjoining the +1 to wound when the stegadon charges.


    and so on
     

Share This Page