More necromanceh... (*Cartman voice* You will respect my necromanceh!) Just wanted to respond to Scalenex's very thoughtful post, which I have shamefully truncated to a soundbite in standard modern media fashion: I completely agree that the map of Itza in the 5th ed book is silly. It's tiny, for one thing. But... it has one big advantage over all the maps that came after. (Er, the Tlaxtlan map and... were there any others?) Namely, it's small enough to be practical for a modelling project. I could just about imagine building an Itza to match that map in 1997 in the garage. It would fill a wargaming table, but it wouldn't be an insane project like a Games Day table. So I can't help think the map was deliberately drawn up like that as an achievable hobby goal. Much like Space Marine Chapters in 40K only containing a thousand men each. Absurd on a galactic scale... but it's a number the average hobbyist could *just about* imagine reaching with some dedicated collecting, even back in the 90s. I don't mind it being orderly though. A city that still maintains an orderly layout unchanged in 7000+ years seems to me completely unbelievable... unless it's a Lizardman city. They'd make flippin' well sure the Old Ones' ancient capital stays EXACTLY as originally planned. Although on second thought, it could have undergone natural city evolution in the thousands of years before Chaos invaded. So, uh, ignore me. I worry more about the pyramid of Pahuax having a Sotek snake-pit, but oh well...
Unignored. Given how the Lizardmen were the most Order-orientated creatures on the planet, and this mindset only seemed to intensify as you moved up their hierarchy, it's not much of a stretch to assume that the Old Ones/Slann/Interdimensional Cold-booded Colonisation Commitee had a specific layouts in mind when designing and constructing cities. Real-world examples include many European cities, such as London and Paris, whose urban sprawl developed in a much more organic fashion compared to the more planned design of Washington DC or Brasilia.
As much as I prefer the larger map, you bring up a great point that I never considered before. Looking at the old map it would be fairly feasible to make a small Mordheim map or something to match up with the buildings and pyramids shown.
I found it! Found an ACHIVE link to the old Warhammer Attack on Hexacoatl- Making of a Giant Diorama is story hopefully for perpetuity. Same images that I have already uploaded, but in case anyone is interested HERE is the link!
Currently working on a map of a rebuilt Pahuax with a friend. This thread was extremely useful in gathering visual aids and seeing what the community consensus is in stuff like temple locations
Work on a map of Pahuax has begun, first is my original concept sketch and second is the first digital drawing by Janus, the artist.
Great work Mr. Crocodile. Let me explain why I don't like this GW map \/ If Itza was pre-planned and the Lizardmen's religious devotion means they cannot deviate from their original design, then the Temple and Altar of Sotek should not be the geographic center of the Lizardmen's oldest Temple City build thousands of years before they were even aware of Sotek. (also Itza should have more temples than that in my opinion). If the city adapted to changing situations over time (such as Sotek rising to be the preeminent god), then the city layout should be more chaotic. I'm not a great map maker, so I probably won't be able to make my own map of Itza anytime soon. I have some good map software and I am slowly learning it. I do want to get a map of Klodorex done at some point in 2023. The Kahoun of Klodorex is much much smaller than Itza. 4 Slann, now 5 Slann that they have an unwanted visitor. ~4000 Skinks, ~800 Kroxigor, ~800 Sauri. Maybe about 500 Skinks and 100 Temple Guard as part of the new Slann's entourage. My plan is that the temples are going to be built a long perfect cardinal direction, either straight north, south, east, and west or perfectly diagonal northwest, southwest, lines etc. But while the temples are going to be perfectly placed, all other buildings are going to be awkwardly crammed around them in the space available. If you are a fan of my fluff pieces, you'll know Klodorex had a lot of boondoggle construction, so Klodorex is extra chaotically cramped. They have about 5500 hundred Lizardmen but they could easily accommodate 10,000 without a lot of fuss, so there are lot of empty or underutilized buildings. I think Chotec temples should be eastward to tie with the rising sun and Huanchi temple westward for the setting sun. I think Potec temples should be south or north to point at the Chaos poles of the world and ward them off. Tzunki temples should be near natural water sources or spawning pools. I think most of the other Old One's temples would built next to or on top of spawning pools. It's open to interpretation whether the Slann would have their own temples or if they would piggyback off the Old One's temple. In my head cannon, when a Slann is "on the clock" he is going to probably want to be in a temple connected to a mystic ley line and most mystic ley lines set by the Old Ones seems to follow cardinal directions perfection. When a Slann is resting, he probably wants to not be at a ley line. In my city Klodorex, the Slann have ordered the construction of four temples carved/built on the top of Mount Klodor, perfectly centered around an extremely powerful ley line intersection anchored by the Monument of Izzatal. This is where the Slann perform major contemplations and major magical feats. Perfectly diagonal to the Monument of Izzatal but all the way at the bottom of the mountain are four pyramid temples built in the same configuration connected by a lesser ley line. Slann down here can talk to Slann on the mountain top but they cannot access the magical might of the Monument of Izzatal down there. Slann do their day-to-day leadership here and this is also where they like to take naps. It's also where the spawning pools are. Elsewhere in Klodorex, temples were built primarily to service the spiritual needs of the Skinks, Sauri, and Kroxigor. The Slann are welcome to use these temples and they all have Slann chambers waiting but the Slann generally don't bother with them. These temples are still built perfectly along geometric patterns and cardinal directions. The practical buildings were built around the temples. Tlanxla the flying war god Old One is generally only important to Terradon riders. So they constructed all their Terradon support buildings near the temple. Most barracks and military training facilities were built near the temple of Tlaxcotl. The Skink Priests set up administrations center near the Temple of Tepoc. Etc. But according to GW lore, Itza has anywhere between a 100,000 and a 1,000,000 Lizardmen in it. I'm not sure how many Lizardmen to put in the world in my own head canon, but I figure about half of all Lizardmen live in the four main Temple Cities with Itza as by far the biggest and Xlanhuapec is by far the smallest. Maybe about a quarter of Lizardmen live in partially rebuilt ruined Temple Cities and the remaining live in Kahoun, or tiny Temple Cities. I figure Klodorex is actually above average size for a Kahoun but not overwhelmingly huge. Anyway, that is my interpretation. Other interpretations are also valid. I have a big list of what buildings are in Klodorex and which general section of the city they are in, which can be viewed here, but I'm a long way from putting it all in a pretty map. Klodorex has a central district, also nicknamed the Temple District because the main temples are here and all the buildings around the temples are to guard and serve the Slann. Then there is the northern quadrant, southern quadrant, western quadrant, and eastern quadrant. I guess Mount Klodor and the farmland around the Kahoun count as separate regions. The oldest buildings are in the East, because the eastern district touches Mount Klodor. Temple of Sotek is in the north because during the time of the Rat and Serpent, this was where the edge of the city was. During the building expansion, they expanded west and south. The west used to be little more than a big reservoir but they build a farming irrigation system into the reservoir and they also moved the Salamander pens there. They use the reservoirs to keep their artificial swamps full and if the Salamanders start some accidental fires, the reservoir is right their to help put out the flames. I tried to come up with logical reasons for why things are where they are. Ripperdactyls aren't based in the city, they have a small aviary on the far side of Mount Klodor outside of the hustle and bustle so they don't eat some random Skink walking to work.
Man, this thread is an absolute gold mine. I am getting into writing my lore now and this is going to be so helpful in fully designing my temple city. Also, is there a thread where we keep track of all the member's homebrew lore temple cities? Ideally, only admins would be able to update it and there would be a map of lustria with all the important locations, with a bit of lore from each city and a link to the member's main lore thread. I say ideally only admins would update it so we can avoid the "oh that's cool" comments, which while welcome, wouldn't really add much to the archive and I believe they would contribute more in the respective lore threads.
We already have something very similar though not identical to what you are asking for. Have you browsed the Lustriapedia? That is my attempt to make a one-stop index for all things fluff. Anyway, the second post covers all the Temple Cities in published GW books and the L-O members who wrote fluff or fiction about these sites. Then it's followed by Unofficial Temple Cities which includes all the places made up whole-cloth by L-O members. I created that resource years ago for L-O. The interactive map with pins is something I only created last December. Is the map and the whole wiki biased towards my own personal fluff? Very much so, and this will not change as I slowly expand it. I still try to write things generic enough to be a resource to other fluff writers. And if people want me to post their fluff or stories on the Warhammer Fantasy Scale Universe wiki, I will do so with proper credit to the original author. That said, 80% of the traffic to Warhammer Fantasy Scale Universe is from L-O members, but who knows what the future will bring. My World Anvil profile is slowly growing, though my true loyalty is for Scarterra. The general rule with using other people's fluff (or even GW fluff) is to take the parts you like and ignore the parts you don't. I could create a World Anvil account for a more generic version of Lustria for group work. I am willing to do this, but only if I'm not doing all the work. I would want some active co-authors to share the load with. Otherwise, if you guys want an interactive map, you'll have to make due with the one I made, and updates at the pace I set. Perhaps if more of you guys join World Anvil and drop me some like's there, I will update it faster.
The mapping project for the Lizardmen Temple City of Pahuax is complete! https://www.deviantart.com/planjanusza/art/Pahuax-city-map-952277302
World Anvil is having Best ____ awards for 2022. I did not make any of the finalist lists. But anyway, this map was not made for Lizardmen (I don't think) but it really shows you want a layered map can do (the upper right has layers that can be toggled on or off to add or remove features to the map). Worth aspiring to.
More images of ATTACK ON HEXACOATL 01 Some of the images may already be repeated, but my intention is to upload all the images that I have obtained some time ago. I remember that there were many more images but unfortunately I was not astute enough to download them all.