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AoS NEW *rumor*

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Logan8054, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    Well, you don't really want to make him any more expensive.

    I see the strength on DfIA a bit different. Just look at this from the opponent's perspective. Yes, you could deal 2 wound to him and has slight chance to kill, you can do like 9 wounds and have 50/50 chance to kill him. But there's also a big chance just to waste of all this damage. IDK, if I'd played against such a model, I would simply try to ignore it. Remember, that he will have cover, lookout, astrolith and guard on top of it. I still like 4+ FNP more, but the new ability is not as horrible as it may seem.

    Old kroak had bravery 10 and rolled single d6, iirc, so you had to deal at least 5 wound to him, to kill. But that was per turn, not per phase. And he was quite popular. I can think of 2 main threats to kroak now - Teclis with his AoE spell, since he loses nothing, if he hits kroak and he can deal up to 6 wounds, and Kharadron alphastrike lists.

    I like the fact, that he knows all the lore, but still don't have access to skink one. However, a bit more spells can see play, like walk between realms and drain magic.

    I still wish he'd be god-like strength model, which can compete with teclis and nagash in terms of magic mastery, even if he wouldn't be so competitive. I think, we will more actively use arcane vassal now. Maybe, trogg will see more play?
     
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  2. Skained
    Chameleon Skink

    Skained Well-Known Member

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    well the image looks terrible, but kroak 430, kragnos 760, allariel 740
     

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    Last edited: May 28, 2021
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  3. NecridHydra
    Temple Guard

    NecridHydra Well-Known Member

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    ++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Order - Seraphon) [1,650pts] ++

    + Leader +

    Lord Kroak [430pts]

    Saurus Astrolith Bearer [140pts]

    Skink Oracle on Troglodon [220pts]

    Skink Priest [70pts]

    Skink Starpriest [120pts]

    + Battleline +

    Saurus Guard [100pts]: 5 Saurus Guards, Saurus Guard Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer

    Skinks [240pts]: 4x 10 Skinks, Skink Alpha
    . Boltspitter, Celestite Dagger and Star-buckler

    + Other +

    Salamander Hunting Pack [330pts]
    . Hunting Pack
    . . 3x Skink Handler: 3x Celestite Goad
    . Hunting Pack
    . . 3x Skink Handler: 3x Celestite Goad
    . Hunting Pack
    . . 3x Skink Handler: 3x Celestite Goad

    + Allegiance +

    Allegiance
    . Allegiance: Seraphon
    . . Starborne: Fangs of Sotek, Show Celestial Conjuration Table

    + Game Options +

    Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

    ++ Total: [1,650pts] ++

    You still have 350 points for screens or a unit of 40 Skinks + 10 as screen.
     
  4. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    aw poor kraggnos dead on arrival
     
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  5. Tyranitar
    Terradon

    Tyranitar Well-Known Member

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    I'm convinced this is fake now, Kragnos can't possibly be 760 pts...
     
  6. MackiMac
    Ripperdactil

    MackiMac Well-Known Member

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    These are all the warscroll changes.
    Green = Buff
    Red = Nerf
    1.png
     
  7. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    why on earth would you send kroak into a monster?
     
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  8. MackiMac
    Ripperdactil

    MackiMac Well-Known Member

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    I would not, but the rule is better than before. If Kroak get attacked by a monster and survive, its better to have 5 attacks rather than 1 :)
     
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  9. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    Since this apparently is genuine now that we've had multiple pictures; God what a waste of an update....

    Since it's per phase he's really only vulnerable during two phases. 1) During combat and 2) during shooting. In every other phase it'l be difficult to get more than 2-3 wounds on him. Which really means he's only vulnerable in the shooting phase cuz why in the world would he ever be in melee with anything? Even if you ignore the risk of putting him in combat azerite barrier just sucks so much it's not worth the effort. So it's basicly only going to be heavy shooting armies who will form a reliable threat.

    Which makes it a terrible rule for two reasons.

    1) In a lot of circumstances he's effectivly immortal.
    2) Every so often you'l have a game where a random wound kills him.

    First issue makes it a frustrating rule for your opponents. Second issue makes it a frustrating rule for the seraphon player. Neither is exactly good for the game. At least his original rule allowed you to kill him by scoring a few wounds throughout a turn and he wouldn't randomly die after only 2 wounds. Making it vastly less frustrating for both parties.

    Except Slann can already switch at will anyway so it isn't that much of an improvement and more importantly the slann spell lore kinda sucks anyway and you take Kroak for his personal spells. I mean sure, you'l occasionally get some use out of it and it's fluffy. But it isn't exactly something exciting or interesting.

    You wouldn't. But with how azerite barrier works and it being his only attack he definitly needs something to use against single-entity units. Admittadly this doesn't actually fix the issue but it's something I gues? Why isn't it just "this attack does a minimum of 5 attacks"? That way it'd still work against a lone surviving skaven or a random minor hero as well.
     
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  10. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. That's what bothers me most about this new rule. If he had like 5 wounds before he can die at all, I would say, it is absolutely great.

    Azyrite force barrier is a tool and one should never forget it has one. I used it a couple of times, and it, actually, can do the job right. And sometimes you can abuse a rule, because you don't have target a unit with number of attacks it gives you, you just have so much attacks. Sometimes it can help to snipe characters, for example. It is an ok thing to have.

    Yeah, our lore sucks, but knowing all of it is way better then to switch in the end of the phase. I often start with a stellar tempest, but if I meet an army, which doesn't have hordes, I have to switch first. Walk between realms can be very strong on our monsters and helps to ignore overgrown, but it is almost always not worth to shift to it. Same with arcane unforging. Having a 12 inch bubble with a chance to break an artefact can create additional pressure. And it extends to 18, once astrolith is near, etc.
     
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  11. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    i don't know why you would ever use WBW his CA is just a much better version
     
  12. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    In a vacuum azerite barrier isn't terrible. My main issue with it is that it's his only attack and that it has no minimum. It leads to the awkward situation where he'll struggle to kill a lone skaven clanrat because he only has 1 attack. Similarly, stuff like a MSU of liberators or a single vampire lord easily beat him to a pulp if he's out of spells. Which is just dumb.

    Really all I'm asking for is for azerite barrier to just have a minimum number of attacks (say 5) or for him to get an extra minor attack. Just something to guarantee he can actually deal with a basic MSU, lone clanrat, or random minor hero without needing to waste spells on them...

    I mean, sure it's better than not having it. Doesn't make it particularly good or even exciting though. I'd probably like the rule more on a regular slann given their lack of personal spells. Kroak doesn't really need it anywhere near as much as he already has plenty of good spells to cast anyway.
     
  13. Tobi131313
    Skink

    Tobi131313 Member

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    Welp, we got our confirmation in the newest community article that this warscroll is the real one. Which is honestly kind of a bummer. It's not bad, and the 20+ rule we will see how it actually works out in soe games, but other than that it's pretty much just the same.... Which is honestly undeserving for such an awesome looking model.
     
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  14. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    sigh.. what an incredibly waste...
     
  15. xoid
    Terradon

    xoid Well-Known Member

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    Why are they so obsessed with making the master of order as random as possible?
     
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  16. Jason839
    Salamander

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    Because its easier than having to balance your game. if everything is random you can chalk things up to bad luck instead of bad balance..
     
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  17. ArtoriusaurusRex
    Temple Guard

    ArtoriusaurusRex Well-Known Member

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    It's a waste of a model update. But...I think we can still finagle him with Arcane Vassal. 16" from a skink 12" up may well do the trick most of the time.


    And if he *is* in range, he's more dangerous than ever.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2021
  18. Tzunki
    Jungle Swarm

    Tzunki New Member

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    One thing. When our new book came out, 90% said it is bad. The scrolls were bad an so on.. And yet it is top3 army.. So you guys are panicing way too early again. This kroak is amazing. Its funny that so many of you go with averages when calculating dmg, but not when its about kroak healing. Kroak is SUPER strong with +2 board wide unbind and healing all the chip dmg. All for 430p which is nothing
     
  19. ArtoriusaurusRex
    Temple Guard

    ArtoriusaurusRex Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how we all missed it, but he does know all the spells in the Slann lore.


    That does help a lot in my eyes. I value such flexibility.

    Plus some of the Realm spells are actually quite good, but that'll just occasionally be icing.
     
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  20. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    Kroak is nowhere bad. He is worse than he was, but he was too good. The main blow is his price. Second one is that he will randomly die in some games, but he can survive against all odds in others. Not the best playing experience for either side.

    It is a waste mainly because GW could make him real god of magic and they missed the opportunity.
     
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