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AoS Sud's Thunder Lizard Rules - With Testing Now!

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Sudsinabucket, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. Sudsinabucket
    Skink Chief

    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    Updated 10/23

    Thunder Lizard rules


    Thunder Lizard (?220mm x 200mm base?)


    *The Thunderlizard is the largest of the monsters in a Slanns memory and only a few remain alive from The World That Was on the Floating Isle in Ghur where the Temple City of Xiuhcoatl resides. In its wake destruction of akin to a natural disaster is left behind. With few predators large enough to engage with it the Thunderlizard fears virtually nothing, the very sight or even its bellowing call cause whole armies to turn and run.*


    Cost: 800 points


    Wounds: 28

    Bravery: 10

    Save: +3, 6+ Ward

    Move: ●


    Unit size: Unique – 1 per army, may be a general


    Weapons:


    Titan Stomp: 2d6/5+/2+/-3/*; wounds of 6 inflict mortal wounds instead.


    Meteoric Spears: 8”/8/5+/4+/-/1


    Wounds table:


    Suffered Move Titan Stomp Celestial lightning

    0-5 12 6 4d6

    6-10 10 D6 3d6

    11-15 8 3 3d6

    16-20 8 3 2d6

    21+ 6 D3 2d6


    Abilities:


    Cracking Tail Whip: *The Thunderlizards tail crackles with natural electrical currents and is fitted with metal spikes and gold-plated armor as it whips through the air at lightning speed. Even the greatest of monsters and daemons stagger back at its might* At the start of every combat phase roll a die for each unit within 6 inches. On a 2+ roll a die for each model in that unit. On a 5+ deal one mortal wound.


    Celestial Lightning: *From atop of the head of the beast a Star Priest calls down a massive lightning strike against a foe from across the battlefield* During the shooting phase pick a unit within 24” roll a number of dice as per the wound table. If the roll is equal to or more than the bravery of the unit, that unit takes D6 mortal wounds.


    Colossal Mass: *So thick is the hide of a Thunderlizard that only the sharpest and strongest of weapons can pierce its hide, but even then it only angers the beast* The sheer size and tough hide of the Thunderlizard makes most weapons ineffective at causing damage, and even allows the Thunderlizard to plow through all but the most devastating spells. as such do not apply negative modifiers to the Thunderlizards save rolls, and for every wound or mortal wound assigned to the Thunderlizard roll a d6. On 6+ the wound is ignored.


    Imposing Visage: *The sight of a Thunderlizard in the distance is enough to send a enemies army back to where it came from as its morale is sapped from it before the creature is engaged* Enemy Units within 12” have their bravery reduced by 1.

    [​IMG]

    Thunderous Gait:*Thunderlizards are so large that a single step is a hundred steps for a horse, lumbering along the behemoth breaks the ground and men under its foot* The immense bulk of a Thunderlizard entering the battlefield is frightening to both foe and ally as any foolish enough to be caught in its quaking footfalls are sure to be bloodied, broken, and scattered. When this model makes a normal move, it can pass across models with a Wounds characteristic of 8 or less, as well as terrain pieces that are equal to or less than 6”, in the same manner as a model that can fly. In addition, after this model has made a normal move or a charge move, roll a dice for each unit that has any models it passed across, and each other unit that is within 1" of this model at the end of the move. On a 2+ that unit suffers D6 mortal wounds. Any units successfully wounded by this ability suffer -1 Bravery until the end of the turn.



    [​IMG]
    Crushing Fall: *To be caught under a falling Thunder Lizard is to being under a collapsing mountain of flesh and bone* If this model is slain the controlling player picks anywhere on the battlefield within 5" of the Thunder Lizard, any units within 4" suffer D6 mortal wounds.


    Magic:


    The Thunderlizard is a Wizard due to the Star Priest on its head and can cast 2 spells in your hero phase and attempt to unbind two spells in your opponents hero phase. The Thunderlizard is a valid target for the Slann’s Vassel ability. If a Slann is within 12” of the a Thunderlizard both the Slann and Thunderlizard receive +1 to casting rolls.


    The Thunderlizard knows Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield and Rejuvenate Wounds spells


    Rejuvenate Wounds: CV 8 24” range. Adept at keeping their prized mounts alive, the controlling Star Priest casts regenerative life magic to heal even the most grievous of wounds. If successfully cast and not unbound Rejuvenate Wounds heals one MODEL within 24” of 2d3 wounds. If that model is a Thunderlizard it heals 4 wounds instead.
     
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  2. ILKAIN
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    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    If you are going to make this a possible general, you need to give it a command ability.
     
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  3. Sudsinabucket
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    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    Its going to effect Skinks/kroxigors or Salamanders/Razordons or Saurus/Saurus Guards. Just havent worked out the details yet :)
     
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  4. Sudsinabucket
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    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    I honestly want my army to be saurus heavy while supported by monsters. Amd it seems most people agree saurus warriors and guards need a buff of some sort

    Could a command ability include a buff to saurus and say salamanders? What could this look like?

    I sort of (without ever playing a game) imagine the command ability adding rend or something to saurus units within...24"? And maybe buffing salamanders to 5 wounds? The base is going to be rather big so the command ability would need long range imo

    These are just off the top of my head, with no real experience in the game (yet)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  5. ILKAIN
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    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    buffing wounds is really not thematically logical... think what is it about the TL that makes them beefier. it makes more sense to adjust a save or add a shrug as they are emboldened by the presence of the TL. additionally hunting packs and saurus are not really associated in the lore... if you wanna buff slamanders you would look more at buffing skinks with them. if you wanna buff saurus you should focus on saurus themes. tbh the TL is already a skink based model... I would stick with Skink themed buffs
     
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  6. Sudsinabucket
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    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    I had the thought of the TL buffing abilities that require skinks/handlers to be near by. Kroxigors need skinks within 3", razordons need handlers within 3" and salamanders also need handlers within 3" to activate certain buffs or .... what about this:

    Comand Ability: Towering Presence - The Thunderlizard towers over the battlefield decimating enemies in its path. Lesser creatures emboldened by the Thunderlizard within 12"-24" usually lead and goaded by skinks now require them to be within 9" of their respective skink instead of 3" to activate certain abilities
     
  7. Wilhelm Stürmer
    Ripperdactil

    Wilhelm Stürmer Well-Known Member

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    So, I ran this my a fellow AoS player and he made some good points:

    Similarly point costed models have FAR less wounds. For instance Nagash (850 points) has 16 wounds. The next closest example would be the Khorne dragon at 1200 points with 30 wounds. I would say the Thunderlizard is closer to the Khorne dragon and should probably have it's point cost increased to 1,000 or lower its wounds to 24. Similarly, most of my suggestions are going to be based on that model's warscroll.

    For Celestial Lightning, the # of dice to determine the Bravery roll should start at 3D6, not 4D6. 4D6 is effectively an automatic success, as the average is 13.

    Edit the unrendable wording to mirror the Bastiladon's: "The sheer size and tough hide of the Thunderlizard makes most weapons ineffective at causing damage, and even allows the Thunderlizard to plow through all but the most devastating spells. When you make save rolls for a Thunderlizard, ignore the attacker’s Rend characteristic,. In addition, for every wound or mortal wound assigned to the Thunderlizard roll a d6. On 6+ the wound is ignored."

    For the Titan Stomp, you have "Titan Stomp: 2d6/5+/2+/-3/*; wounds of 6 inflict mortal wounds instead." How many MWs will be inflicted on a wound roll of 6+?

    For the healing spell, I'd consider changing the 2D3 roll with a D6 and maybe add wording that the D6 will always be at least 3 wounds healed.

    Couple of nit-picking points:
    • Descriptive fluff edit: "In its wake, destruction akin to a natural disaster is left behind."
    • Magic description edit: "The Thunderlizard is a valid target for the Slann’s Arcane Vassel ability."
    • For consistency all references to inches should be ".
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  8. ILKAIN
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    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    the reason for the wording on the ignore negative save modifiers not matching the bastilodon is we don't want it to match it. the basti can have its save reduced by spells or abilities, the TL cant.

    we want the ranged ability to be essentially automatic at full health. that's why we bumped it to 4d6. additionally horde units get a +1 bravery per 10 models so its not exactly automatic, just *almost* lol.

    knowing the cost for the dragon, 24 doesn't seem unreasonable.

    the titan stomp 6+ wound ability reads exactly as it should. the damage inflicted for those dice is mortal... the amount is the same.
     
  9. Wilhelm Stürmer
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    Wilhelm Stürmer Well-Known Member

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    Ah, ok so a wound roll of 6+ inflicts the same damage number that is on the Wound Table, it's just Mortal Wounds instead.

    Also, I edited my suggestions to include thoughts on the healing spell.
     
  10. Sudsinabucket
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    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    Id be fine with it being 1k points, I originally had it at 1300 @ 34 wounds based of that same model. Id rather it be a higher wound model in part due to how large the base will end up being and just given how large a TL actually is

    What is your reasoning for this? Too powerful originally or? Im open to whatever just curious

    Fair lol I honestly haven't gone through and edited it fully yet, I noticed the akin part adter I posted.

    This

    Also this
     
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  11. Wilhelm Stürmer
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    Wilhelm Stürmer Well-Known Member

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    @Sudsinabucket The reasoning for the healing roll change is based 2D3 rolls not being a thing in AoS, based on the input I received. 2D3 does average out slightly better than D6, so thus my suggestion of having the minimum of the D6 roll being 3 damage healed. Nagash has some similar roll ability to that wording.
     
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  12. ILKAIN
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    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    thunder lizards aren't a thing in AOS, never mind 2d3 rolls. its just some creative liberty in exploring mechanics for the game. limiting oneself to only what has been done before makes for a boring "creation"

    so your wording would be d3 +3? that is stronger than 2d3, especially since, as is, the spell when cast on self is automatically 4. 4 is the minimum for d3+3.
     
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  13. Wilhelm Stürmer
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    Wilhelm Stürmer Well-Known Member

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    No, not D3 +3. The roll would be 1D6, but the heal value would be at least 3. So, the value of healing would be between 3-6. I suppose that is a bit stronger than 2D3 as the minimum there would be 2.

    And I get what you're saying about not limiting yourself in the creation process, but if @Sudsinabucket was thinking of using this model in more than friendly games, my suggestion was just to keep it more in line with GW's wording.
     
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  14. ILKAIN
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    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    I get that... but how would they ever use it in a non-casual game? its completely a homebrew... 100% not legal for anything outside of "kitchen table gaming".
     
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  15. Wilhelm Stürmer
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    Wilhelm Stürmer Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, just suggestions. :) I'm not trying to make it seem like these are must-haves.
     
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  16. Sudsinabucket
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    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    For now I'm going to keep the healing as is, however I'm saving these suggestions for later incase it does become hard to play it.

    Any thoughts on the Command ability I mentioned? Should this even be able to be a general?
     
  17. ILKAIN
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    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    honestly as far as the command ability goes I would make something like that a general trait. perhaps seeing as we have separate traits for slann, saurus and skink generals... we could generate some command traits for "monster" units that are leaders (EOTG, CARNO, TL etc) of which this would fall under. so a old blood on carno could choose one trait between the two sets under saurus and monster. to me it feels like it should be more a permanent thing rather than a "command"
     
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  18. Sudsinabucket
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    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    That I could definitely get behind and I feel should already be in the game

    I'm gonna ponder some monster trait that maybe affects kroxigors or skinks in some compacity, any ideas are welcome
     
  19. Sudsinabucket
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    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    Command Ability and Trait for General variants:

    Cost: 1100 points – General Variant

    800 Points – Normal Variant

    Wounds: 28
    Bravery: 10
    Save: +3, 6+ Ward
    Move: ●

    Unit size: Unique – 1 per army, may be a general

    Command Trait

    God Like Presence:

    At the beginning of the shooting phase choose one of the following traits:

    Trait of the Savage Primordials: Skinks/Saurus Warrior/Gaurd: additional 6+ FNP, or -1 Rend/+1 ATK

    Trait of Beast Handling: Razordons: -1 Rend/16" range Salamanders: Re-roll Hit Rolls of 1 Handlers: Bonuses apply at 9", rather than 3"

    Trait of Honored Warriors: Kroxigor: Moonhammer range increased to 3"

    Command ability:

    Living Cover-

    Terradons and Ripperdactyls within 12" are hidden by the Thunderlizards bulk

    Terradon Riders: Perched on the Thunderlizard far above the battle riders pick out their prey before swooping in unnoticed til the last moment + 2" range for Starstreak Javelin and Sunleech Bolas and -1 rend

    Ripperdactyls: The Swooping Dive ability now applies -2 rend to a successful reroll attack during the combat phase with its Slashing Claws and Vicious Beak as the victim is caught totally guard as you do not have to declare that they are swooping down and are ripped and torn apart

    Thoughts on these? More wording will be added, these are just basic ideas

    I feel these really capture the essence of the TL being the ultimate support unit and plays to the Seraphon strength of versatility that will offer more play styles and tactics
     
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  20. Erta Wanderer
    Skink Priest

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    cool he looks like fun lets try to balance this out
    Trait of the Savage no one would ever chose the FNP as +1 rend and attack is just to powerful to ignore
    Trait of Beast Handling this makes razordons even more of a outo pick over salamanders maby salamanders get run/retreat and shoot to help with their terable range
    the rest is good althou we need a range on living cover to ases it properly
     

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