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AoS Sud's Thunder Lizard Rules - With Testing Now!

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Sudsinabucket, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. Wilhelm Stürmer
    Ripperdactil

    Wilhelm Stürmer Well-Known Member

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    I really think we need math facts to support one way or the other, but @ILKAIN makes vaild points about the cost of that ability, but my counter-point is that the model is already providing so much support and devastation, so I think keeping everything balanced and not going full hame on an ability makes it more believable and usable as a unit.
     
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  2. Wilhelm Stürmer
    Ripperdactil

    Wilhelm Stürmer Well-Known Member

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    So true. We have a unique and impressively supportive community here and it really makes me glad I chose Seraphon as my first army.
     
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  3. Sudsinabucket
    Skink Chief

    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I'm inclined to agree with you here, I would like to be able to use her at some point, and going full on might turn many off

    she has a lot of support as is, I think the rend on a reroll is a good balancing act and still keeping her at 1100 not 1k points
     
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  4. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    the problem with the rend only being on the re-rolls is that you would have to make sure to keep the dice separated from the original rolls, and it would actually make missing on the initial roll weaker than the backup roll. a lot of video bat reps and higher end players are rolling dice in little containers that makes it easier, but most table top players are rolling on the terrain and it would casue disagreements about dice being cocked, or other similar things, to trigger the reroll.
     
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  5. Sudsinabucket
    Skink Chief

    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    Current up to date rules are followed. Need some thoughts on the base size, I already think its big enough but looking at the Dreads official base size i'm inclined to go back to over 300mm length. I think the dreads base needs to be nerfed, so i'm nervous making mine much bigger incase that does happen at some point with a new release or something.

    I think i've gone through and caught everything except changing all distances to " which I'll go through and do, have to start getting ready for my doc appointment here soon

    Thunderlizard rules

    Thunderlizard (?220mm x 200mm base?)


    *The Thunderlizard is the largest of the monsters in a Slanns memory and only a few remain alive from The World That Was on the Floating Isle in Ghur where the Temple City of Xiuhcoatl resides. In its wake, destruction akin to a natural disaster is left behind. With few predators large enough to engage with it the Thunderlizard fears virtually nothing, the very sight or even its bellowing call cause whole armies to turn and run.*


    Cost: 1100 points – General Variant


    800 Points – Normal Variant


    Wounds: 28

    Bravery: 10

    Save: +3, 6+ Ward

    Move: ●


    Unit size: Unique – 1 per army, may be a general


    Command Trait


    God Like Presence:


    At the beginning of the shooting phase choose one of the following traits:

    Trait of the Savage Primordials: Skinks/Saurus Warrior/Gaurd: additional 6+ FNP, or -1 Rend/+1 ATK


    Trait of Beast Handling:


    Razordons: -1 Rend/16" range


    Salamanders: Re-roll Hit Rolls of 1 and may retreat at the end of the shooting phase up to 4”


    Trait of Honored Warriors: Kroxigor: Moonhammer range increased to 3"


    Command Ability:


    Command the Skies:


    During your hero phase your Thunderlizard may let out a loud bellow leading the skinks in the howdah to assist nearby flying units. If he does, until the start of your next turn Ripperdactyl and Terradon units within 18" of the TL automatically receive the terrain bonus to save rolls. Additionally add 1 to the attack characteristic of the terradons sunleach bolas and The Swooping Dive ability now applies -2 rendfor Ripperdactyls Vicious beaks the combat phase with its Slashing Claws and Vicious Beak as the skinks supply the Terradons with additional ammunition distracting the targets of the ripperdactyls allowing them to more easily tear into their foes. do not make attacks during the shooting phase this turn with the TL Meteoric Javelins. This effect lasts until the start of your next Hero phase and you do not have to declare that the Ripperdactyls are swooping down when using this ability.



    Weapons:


    Titan Stomp: 2d6/5+/2+/-3/*; wounds of 6 inflict mortal wounds instead.


    Meteoric Spears: 8”/8/5+/4+/-/1


    Wounds table:


    Suffered Move Titan Stomp Celestial lightning

    0-5 12 6 4d6

    6-10 10 D6 3d6

    11-15 8 3 3d6

    16-20 8 3 2d6

    21+ 6 D3 2d6


    Abilities:


    Cracking Tail Whip: *The Thunderlizards tail crackles with natural electrical currents and is fitted with metal spikes and gold-plated armor as it whips through the air at lightning speed. Even the greatest of monsters and daemons stagger back at its might* At the start of every combat phase roll a die for each enemy unit within 6 inches. On a 2+ roll a die for each enemy model in that unit. On a 5+ deal one mortal wound.


    Celestial Lightning: *From atop of the head of the beast a Star Priest calls down a massive lightning strike against a foe from across the battlefield* During the shooting phase pick a enemy unit within 24” roll a number of dice as per the wound table. If the roll is equal to or more than the bravery of the unit, that unit takes D6 mortal wounds.


    Colossal Mass: *So thick is the hide of a Thunderlizard that only the sharpest and strongest of weapons can pierce its hide, but even then it only angers the beast* The sheer size and tough hide of the Thunderlizard makes most weapons ineffective at causing damage, and even allows the Thunderlizard to plow through all but the most devastating spells. as such do not apply negative modifiers to the Thunderlizards save rolls, and for every wound or mortal wound assigned to the Thunderlizard roll a d6. On 6+ the wound is ignored.


    Imposing Visage: *The sight of a Thunderlizard in the distance is enough to send a enemies army back to where it came from as its morale is sapped from it before the creature is engaged* Enemy Units within 12” have their bravery reduced by 1.

    [​IMG]

    Thunderous Gait:*Thunderlizards are so large that a single step is a hundred steps for a horse, lumbering along the behemoth breaks the ground and men under its foot* The immense bulk of a Thunderlizard entering the battlefield is frightening to both foe and ally as any foolish enough to be caught in its quaking footfalls are sure to be bloodied, broken, and scattered. When this model makes a normal move, it can pass across models with a Wounds characteristic of 8 or less, as well as terrain pieces that are equal to or less than 6”, in the same manner as a model that can fly. In addition, after this model has made a normal move or a charge move, roll a dice for each unit that has any models it passed across, and each other unit that is within 1" of this model at the end of the move. On a 2+ that unit suffers D6 mortal wounds. Any units successfully wounded by this ability suffer -1 Bravery until the end of the turn.



    [​IMG]
    Crushing Fall: *To be caught under a falling Thunder Lizard is to being under a collapsing mountain of flesh and bone* If this model is slain the controlling player picks anywhere on the battlefield within 5" of the Thunder Lizard, any units within 4" suffer D6 mortal wounds.


    Magic:


    The Thunderlizard is a Wizard due to the Star Priest on its head and can cast 2 spells in your hero phase and attempt to unbind two spells in your opponents hero phase. The Thunderlizard is a valid target for the Slann’s Arcane Vassel ability. If a Slann is within 12” of the a Thunderlizard both the Slann and Thunderlizard receive +1 to casting rolls.


    The Thunderlizard knows Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield and Rejuvenate Wounds spells


    Rejuvenate Wounds: CV 8 24” range. Adept at keeping their prized mounts alive, the controlling Star Priest casts regenerative life magic to heal even the most grievous of wounds. If successfully cast and not unbound Rejuvenate Wounds heals one MODEL within 24” of 2d3 wounds. If that model is a Thunderlizard it heals 4 wounds instead.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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  6. Imrahil
    OldBlood

    Imrahil Well-Known Member

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    hope it isn't anything serious!? Good luck though

    Gr, Imrahil
     
  7. Wilhelm Stürmer
    Ripperdactil

    Wilhelm Stürmer Well-Known Member

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    I understand and somewhat agree with what you're saying, but this already exists in the game, so I don't have issue with it. Talk to Skaven players that use Plague Monks!
     
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  8. Sudsinabucket
    Skink Chief

    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    Ive been in extreme pain for 3 months, today is my chance at being pain free for the first time in that amount of time for even just a few hours if not (hopefully) longer...been on morphine this whole time...lost my job...its been a ride to say the least

    Safe to say this project and others keeps my mind from going insane

    Im ok though, life goes on
     
  9. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    we need to specify that the cracking tail whip only affects enemy units, unless you want to risk nearby units as well. you may, alternatively make it not affect units with fly.

    as far as the base size, the Dread saurian is on a base that is literally a standard piece of printer paper with rounded edges. I would keep it on that size as this is suppose to be biger than the DS and am in agreement with you that the DS base should be smaller.
     
  10. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    dude that sucks... where do you live if I may ask? UK?
     
  11. Sudsinabucket
    Skink Chief

    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    Hmm...I thought I edited that a long time ago....guess i'll do it now lol

    Edit: I edited the ability both here and on my word Doc

    US, Michigan. It does suck, but life goes on. I thankfully have a wonderful partner and she is nothing but supportive along with my family

    Sounds good, I'm find with the tail over hanging some, I just think any bigger than I have it already is just too big as it would have issues fitting on the board...as it already will. so just to clarify, you think I should keep it at the size I have it in the rules up top or make it the size of the Dread Saurians?
     
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  12. Imrahil
    OldBlood

    Imrahil Well-Known Member

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    O my... that is(seems) hard to get trough. Good luck, hopefully the treatment sticks with you!

    Gr, Imrahil
     
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  13. Sudsinabucket
    Skink Chief

    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    Thanks man! we're hoping, I leave to go to the doc in about half an hour
     
  14. Sudsinabucket
    Skink Chief

    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    How would Colossal Mass work against the new death sub army?


    Null Myriad forces are among the best anti-magic armies in the game, thanks to an ability to ignore the effects of spells on a 5+.

    [​IMG]

    If you’re looking to tackle Skaven, Tzeentch or other magic-wielding armies, you can’t go wrong with this Ossiarch Legion. What’s more, choosing them gives you access to the Baleful Blade, an artefact of power that makes it impossible for enemies to make saving throws or negate wounds. Goodbye, Gotrek!

    [​IMG]

    Pick Them If… you want to completely dominate magical foes. Throw in Nagash or Arkhan (or both!) and you’ve got a force capable of obliterating enemies with spells and taking next to no damage in return.

    vs


    Colossal Mass: *So thick is the hide of a Thunderlizard that only the sharpest and strongest of weapons can pierce its hide, but even then it only angers the beast* The sheer size and tough hide of the Thunderlizard makes most weapons ineffective at causing damage, and even allows the Thunderlizard to plow through all but the most devastating spells. as such do not apply negative modifiers to the Thunderlizards save rolls, and for every wound or mortal wound assigned to the Thunderlizard roll a d6. On 6+ the wound is ignored.
     
  15. Sudsinabucket
    Skink Chief

    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    Question: Do the skinks riding the TL still shoot as usual or are they just there for show/the ride?
     
  16. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    if you are putting actual skinks in the howdah they would be there to represent the skinks fromt eh TL warscroll… they would not have a separate warscroll or attacks. that's what the meteoric javelins are for, and why it loses those attacks when command ability is used.
     
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  17. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    specific rules override general rules. if the weapon says no saves or ignores than the weapon is a counter to colossal mass
     
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  18. Sudsinabucket
    Skink Chief

    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    Thats what I thought I just wanted to reconfirm thank you
     
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  19. Sudsinabucket
    Skink Chief

    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    Boooo, but makes sense
     
  20. Sudsinabucket
    Skink Chief

    Sudsinabucket Well-Known Member

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    Final rules to follow!

    First and foremost I just want to thank all of you who have helped in one way or another, this project really wouldn't be what it is without you all, so thank you for helping me get my vision truly off the ground and hopefully onto a game table in the future


    I've gone through and have edited things, added some fluff and have taken to heart all of your suggestions. I've tried to keep it in line with GW wording as much as possible but also remain its unique feel and I really feel these rules reflect that and the vision I originally had.

    Now for the last time (probably) I ask for any last thoughts, opinions, and what have yous! Is there anything you would change or feel is just too far out there? any editing you see? Nit Pick Away, all will be considered!

    - Suds/Sinarai

    PS - Admins, could I somehow get a Thunderlizard name frame and not a chameleon skink ;) I am the Thunderlizard guy afterall!
    ****************************************
    Thunderlizard rules


    Base: 200mm x 220mm (7.8” x 8.6")


    Thunderlizard


    *The Thunderlizard is the largest of the creatures in a Slanns memory and only a few remain alive from The World That Was on the floating remains of the Dragon Isles now in Ghur where the ancient Temple City of Xiuhcoatl resides. Clad in Gold, Armor and with a mighty howdah the Thunderlizard supports both army and the aerial assault from above. Raised from birth its Star Priest master rides its head guiding the Thunderlizard into battle, in its wake destruction akin to a natural disaster is left behind. With few predators large enough to engage with it the Thunderlizard fears virtually nothing, the very sight or even its bellowing call cause whole armies to turn and run*


    Cost: 1100 points – General Variant


    800 Points – Normal Variant


    Wounds: 28

    Bravery: 10

    Save: +3, 6+ Ward

    Move: ●


    Unit size: Unique – 1 per army, may be a general


    Command Trait


    God Like Presence:


    *Towering above the battle the Seraphon and their beast’s vigor is replenished as the glimmer of the Armored Thunderlizard breaks the toughest of battle lines and the mightiest of creatures. Wading in the Seraphon fight with a renewed ferocity*


    At the beginning of the shooting phase choose one of the following traits:


    Trait of the Savage Primordials: Skinks/Saurus Warrior/Guard: additional 6+ FNP, or -1 Rend/+1 ATK


    Trait of Beast Handling:


    Razordons: -1 Rend/16" range


    Salamanders: Re-roll Hit Rolls of 1 and may retreat at the end of the shooting phase up to 4”


    Trait of Honored Warriors: Kroxigor: Moonhammer range increased to 3"


    Command Ability:


    Command the Skies:


    *From above on the howdahs of the Thunderlizard, Skinks and their flying beasts rest until taking to battle. At faster rates the Terradon Riders replenish their ammunition during battle, able to shield the Ripperdactyl onslaught from sight until it is too late*


    During your hero phase commanded by the Star Priest the Thunderlizard lets out a loud bellow leading the skinks in the howdah to assist nearby flying units. If he does, until the start of your next turn Ripperdactyl and Terradon units within 18" of the TL automatically receive the terrain bonus to save rolls. Additionally add 1 to the attack characteristic of the Terradons Sunleach Bolas and The Swooping Dive ability now applies -2 rendfor Ripperdactyls Vicious Beaks and its Slashing Claws as the skinks supply the Terradons with additional ammunition distracting the targets of the Ripperdactyls. Do not make attacks during the shooting phase this turn with the Thunderlizards Meteoric Javelins. This effect lasts until the start of your next Hero phase and you do not have to declare that the Ripperdactyls are swooping down when using this ability.



    Weapons:


    Titan Stomp: 2d6/5+/2+/-3/*; wounds of 6 inflict mortal wounds instead.


    Meteoric Spears: 8”/8/5+/4+/-/1


    Wounds table:


    Suffered Move Titan Stomp Celestial lightning

    0-5 12 6 4d6

    6-10 10 D6 3d6

    11-15 8 3 3d6

    16-20 8 3 2d6

    21+ 6 D3 2d6


    Abilities:


    Cracking Tail Whip: *The Thunderlizards tail crackles with natural electrical currents and is fitted with metal spikes and gold-plated armor as it whips through the air at lightning speed. Even the greatest of monsters and daemons stagger back at its might* At the start of every combat phase roll a die for each enemy unit within 6 inches. On a 2+ roll a die for each enemy model in that unit. On a 5+ deal one mortal wound.


    Celestial Lightning: *From atop of the head of the beast a Star Priest calls down a massive lightning strike against a foe from across the battlefield* During the shooting phase pick an enemy unit within 24” roll a number of dice as per the wound table. If the roll is equal to or more than the bravery of the unit, that unit takes d6 mortal wounds.


    Colossal Mass: *So thick is the hide of a Thunderlizard that only the sharpest and strongest of weapons can pierce its hide, but even then it only angers the beast* The sheer size and tough hide of the Thunderlizard makes most weapons ineffective at causing damage, and even allows the Thunderlizard to plow through all but the most devastating spells. as such do not apply negative modifiers to the Thunderlizards save rolls, and for every wound or mortal wound assigned to the Thunderlizard roll a d6. On 6+ the wound is ignored.


    Imposing Visage: *The sight of a Thunderlizard in the distance is enough to send a enemies army back to where it came from as its morale is sapped from it before the creature is engaged* Enemy Units within 12” have their bravery reduced by 1.


    Thunderous Gait:*Thunderlizards are so large that a single step is a hundred steps for a horse, lumbering along the behemoth breaks the ground and men under its foot* The immense bulk of a Thunderlizard entering the battlefield is frightening to both foe and ally as any foolish enough to be caught in its quaking footfalls are sure to be bloodied, broken, and scattered. When this model makes a normal move, it can pass across models with a Wounds characteristic of 8 or less, as well as terrain pieces that are equal to or less than 6”, in the same manner as a model that can fly. In addition, after this model has made a normal move or a charge move, roll a dice for each unit that has any models it passed across, and each other unit that is within 1" of this model at the end of the move. On a 2+ that unit suffers d6 mortal wounds. Any units successfully wounded by this ability suffer -1 Bravery until the end of the turn.



    Crushing Fall: *To be caught under a falling Thunder Lizard is to be under a collapsing mountain of flesh and bone* If this model is slain the controlling player picks anywhere on the battlefield within 5" of the Thunder Lizard, any units within 4" suffer D6 mortal wounds.


    Magic:


    The Thunderlizard is a Wizard due to the Star Priest on its head and can cast 2 spells in your hero phase and attempt to unbind two spells in your opponent’s hero phase. The Thunderlizard is a valid target for the Slann’s Arcane Vassel ability. If a Slann is within 12” of the a Thunderlizard both the Slann and Thunderlizard receive +1 to casting rolls.


    The Thunderlizard knows Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield and Rejuvenate Wounds spells


    Rejuvenate Wounds: *Adept at keeping their prized mounts alive, the controlling Star Priest casts regenerative life magic to heal even the most mortal of wounds* If successfully cast and not unbound Rejuvenate Wounds heals one MODEL within 24” of 1d6 wounds. If that model is a Thunderlizard it heals 4 wounds instead. CV 8 24” range.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
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