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8th Ed. THE OLD WORLD - Things you want, things you don't want, must haves and deal breakers!

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Discussion' started by NIGHTBRINGER, Dec 4, 2019.

  1. Imrahil
    Slann

    Imrahil Thirtheenth Spawning

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    Oh I am with you on that. I regularly play MESBG, as you might know;), and I love that the rules haven't (significantly) changed since 2018 and therefor it was only changed regularly in the first 4 years of it's launch. The Game in it self stays the same they only release extra books with special rules and scenarios if you wish to play more narrative games.

    I wish they did the same for AoS.

    Grrr, Imrahil
     
  2. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Seeing the thing as AoS player, I can confirm you're not wrong.
     
  3. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    [​IMG]

    Personally I've always felt the new GW's decision to shorten the time between new editions from 4 years to 3 was not a good idea, particularly with their acceleration of the rate at which they release stuff. Editions definitely go by far too quickly now compared to the good old days pre-End Times and 40K 7th Edition - you just get used to the army book rollouts of one Edition, and then the next is on its way, not to mention that GW now can't seem to go for a whole year without releasing a new Edition of something.

    Additionally I've never like the General's Handbook/Chapter Approved format of AoS and the new 40K - having to pay £20+ a year just to keep your army up-to-date is not something I could get into. Not to mention that those books are now near-pointless given the advent of the new Balance Sheets which perform the role those books were originally intended for, but FREE. In essence those books are just scenario packs now, and even those GW could just release as a free PDF because they're just a few pieces of paper with missions that they want you to play using their game rules. Why don't they just do that and save themselves spending unneccessary money on resources to make them and their customers from spending unneccessary money to buy them?
    [​IMG]

    However, fortunately I can't see TOW falling into this lifestyle, given that most of the existing Specialist Games teams don't follow it. As @Imrahil has said Middle-Earth hasn't followed it, Aeronautica Imperialis definitely doesn't follow it (though given the terribly slow rate of releases for that game, it's just as well) and Adeptus Titanicus doesn't seem to follow it (but who cares about that one anyway given you have exactly the same units on both sides fighting each other? Dead boring :hungover:). Necromunda and Blood Bowl both seem to release a fair bit more paperwork, but even they are not as much as the clockwork release of Battletomes/Codices, Handbooks and New Editions GW gives to its main two games.

    I'll certainly be interested to see if GW do make a more concerted effort to move The Horus Heresy to plastic and start running it themselves this year as per rumours, because if they do it will almost certainly act as an indicator for how TOW will be handled, whether for good or ill, and whether it follows the model of any specific other Specialist Game system. I'd definitely prefer the Middle-Earth model if I had to choose one.


    On a barely-related note, another deal-breaker for me would be if TOW followed the new obsession with objective-play that AoS and new 40K have adopted; metas are designed around objective -grabbing now, and they actively seem to discourage you from playing a game that doesn't involve the use of objective markers. What's wrong with a good-old bash between two armies and deciding who wins by totting up Victory Points/Kill Points? I mean it's fine to play an objective battle once in a while, but to play objective games 24-7 just sounds very boring to me personally.
     
  4. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    that's true.
    For 40k it was a welcome change, but for ToW i'd like to keep a classical approach
     
  5. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Carnasaur

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    I also agree, at least in terms of rules. I'd much rather they actually got around to updating some of the old models.
    It's actually really weird to me that they haven't, they themselves stated at some point early on in AOS's lifecycle (or at least I think it was around that time) that GW was primarily a model company, and yet A LOT of their models are really old.

    Oh and something else: While not a dealbreaker, I'd be disappointed if they don't do something bout the magic system, that is, it should to be scaleable in some way, either by game size, point-investment or something else. I can live with it not changing from how it works in 8th, it just bothers me that it does not scale at all, whereas shooting and combat can scale based on point-investment, but magic is almost completely locked.
     
  6. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Care to clarify?
    in 8th there were plenty of ways to increase the efficiency of a magic phase (talking about number of dices and bonuses) and they were dependent on how many points you were willing to invest in that.
     
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  7. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Shooting or combat potential in a 1000pts army would be vastly smaller than in a 10,000pts army. However, when it comes to magic, outside of some small fringe bonuses, you're still confined to a 2d6 winds of magic roll and a 12 power dice cap. It doesn't matter if you are playing at 1,000 points or 10,000 points. 10 cannons bring 10 times the firepower as compared to a single cannon, but 10 wizards are not 10 times more potent as compared to a single wizard.
     
  8. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    I'm with you on this one.

    This is why I actually prefer the fact that 8th Edition. It is a playable game which isn't being monkeyed around with all the time.

    I like to be able to learn the rules of the game and then PLAY the damn thing. Not have to constantly get the upgraded books, just like @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl has been talking about.
     
  9. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    100%

    GW updating model ranges is always a good thing!

    I'm honestly quite surprised that so many people agree with me on this. I thought I was putting out an unpopular opinion.

    When WFB was discontinued I didn't know how I would feel about a completely unsupported game. After only a very short period of time, I learned to enjoy the fact that it was stable. I can actually focus on the game rather than chase the new shiny thing.

    Since then I've been slowly collecting all the army books, which is something that I never would have done with a continually updated game. It's too expensive to pick up all the books, only to have them become obsolete a few years later.

    I only wish they had completed all the army books for the edition and released one last FAQ to clean everything up.
     
  10. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    ah, makes sense.
    I was thinking at the possible variations within the same amount of points, not at different points levels.

    edit: i don't recall if Storm of Magic deals with this particular issue...
     
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  11. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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  12. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    This. Very Much.

    Exactly.

    [LoR issues a deep, DEEP sigh]

    Yes.

    They could still do it now, but the b**tards will never do it as it doesn't have a major money symbol next to it.
     
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  13. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Carnasaur

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    Yup, NIGHTBRINGER was fast and clarified exactly what I meant.

    Regarding Storm of Magic: It does technically scale the magic system, but does not make it scalable; now you just have 4D6 PD instead of 2D6 and then brings in some additional ascendency for the lores, giving some insane bonuses to casting and adds some more spells. Maybe it could be used well for large games, but it does not really address the underlying issue.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
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  14. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    yep, 2d6 should be the basis, but you should add power dices for a certain equivalent of magic user you bring to the table...
     
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  15. Tk'ya'pyk
    Skar-Veteran

    Tk'ya'pyk Well-Known Member

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    I am annoyed at having to rework the armylist for, well, everything every 6 months when points changes come down from on high. As for the every 3-4 year updates thing...

    In 5th ed, I ran a Dogs of War army. In eight years it went from New to Generic (that get-you-by regiments thing they did for 6th edition) to unsupported and not-legal-at-all-and-never-updated...

    So yeah... It could be worse. The frequency of updates annoys me, but as long as EVERYTHING is updated, I don't care as much as I maybe should.

    #NO ARMY LEFT BEHIND!!!
     
  16. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Exactly.

    #evenifyou'redeadyouhaverights

    #hashutstilllives
     
  17. BigDinosaur
    Skink

    BigDinosaur Active Member

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    I never understood the need to put down and discontinue selling army books, miniatures etc from WHF, even if they decide to create a new game.

    Why not keep the latest miniatures and books up for sale? why take down high elves, bretonnia, khemri... ?

    Just keep selling them and maybe do batches on demand or something. Worst case scenario you still make some extra money?

    That surprised me more than the discontinuation of the game. It just seems dumb move, specially considering how greedy GW is.
     
  18. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    +1

    You missed out Chaos Dwarfs. :)
     
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  19. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    I don't know for sure, but i've had the impression that when they discontinued TK, the models went out of stock. Maybe they sold all what there was in the warehouses?
    I'm just making an hypothesis here...
     
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  20. Imrahil
    Slann

    Imrahil Thirtheenth Spawning

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    I think there is truth in that.
    To make AoS happen they needed the factory and storage space, so they weren't able to keep selling them both because they could not keep making them both.

    Grrr, Imrahil
     

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