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AoS Tuning DT for expected new meta.

Discussion in 'Seraphon Army Lists' started by Jason839, Oct 30, 2020.

  1. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    That makes sense. Most of my opponents have learned they don't want to risk seraphon getting a double turn and always make me go first. Also Kroak will be out of range then, ect.
     
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  2. Jason839
    Troglodon

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    New version I have been experimenting with to fight new DoK and the like. Less magic and summoning potential, but more shots to kill cauldrons and archaons and the like. Still going with DT for the ability to hide the threats off the table against shooting.

    Allegiance: Seraphon
    - Constellation: Dracothion's Tail
    Lord Kroak (320)
    - General
    - Spell: Stellar Tempest

    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
    Skink Starpriest (120)
    -Godbeast Pendant
    - Spell: Hand of Glory
    Skink Priest (70)
    5 x Saurus Guard (100)
    5 x Saurus Guard (100)
    40 x Skinks (240)
    - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
    3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
    3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
    Balewind Vortex (40)
    Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)

    Total: 1980 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 138
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
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  3. SeraphonArmy
    Skink

    SeraphonArmy New Member

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    why starseer intead of starpriest?
    And do you prefer this list vs ko, tzeetnch, lumineth, instead of the 2 slann draco list?
    Thanks
     
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  4. Jason839
    Troglodon

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    Wasnt paying attention when i made the list in warscroll builder lol. It should be the starpriest for the mortals. Ill fix it thanks.

    I havent played it enough to decide yet.
     
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  5. Tav
    Kroxigor

    Tav Well-Known Member

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    Something like this does better vs KO, you have enough bodies to outscore but also have high damage with rend from salamanders. Can really threaten the boats as soon as they come into range to shoot
     
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  6. NecridHydra
    Chameleon Skink

    NecridHydra Active Member

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    Why two units of Guard instead of one? For two Command Group or you want to scout with one unit?
     
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  7. Jason839
    Troglodon

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    mostly out of fear that my opponent rolls well and can kill kroak and 5 guard while my stuff is waiting to appear on command.
     
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  8. PJetski
    Cold One

    PJetski Active Member

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    I've been enjoying following this thread, thanks for the updates

    Have you considered running a Starseer with any command trait (Nimble or +1 casting are both good) as your general instead of a SLANN? That would come at the cost of some Guard/Skinks (you have more than enough battleline slots filled) and/or downgrading a pack of Salamanders to Razordons. The Starseer is another node for vassal casting, another SKINK lore spell (like Tide of Serpents!), he has an excellent signature spell for both defense and focused offense (like taking down those pesky Ironclads and Cauldrons) and gives one unit that juicy 3d6 charge.

    In my experience Razordons are a good alternative to a second squad of Salamanders for their point cost, especially when facing armies that mitigate rend and/or multi-damage weapons. Though they lack the rend and mortal wounds of Salamanders the extra 6" range lets them reach units further behind enemy screens. This gives you more tactical options in teleport shooting and generally forces enemies to deploy squishy support even further back from the frontline which gives you more board control. They are also a nice secondary target for the Priest/Starpriest buffs since they put out a lot of shots in one turn - this is nice to have once enemies chip away at the main skink squad.
     
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  9. Jason839
    Troglodon

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    Its not something Ive thought about but I will consider it! So your list is something like this then?

    Allegiance: Seraphon
    - Constellation: Dracothion's Tail

    Leaders
    Skink Starseer
    (140)
    - General
    - Command Trait: Nimble
    - Artefact: Godbeast Pendant
    - Spell: Tide of Serpents

    Lord Kroak (320)
    - Spell: Stellar Tempest
    Skink Priest (70)
    Skink Starpriest (120)
    - Spell: Hand of Glory
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)

    Battleline
    5 x Saurus Guard
    (100)
    40 x Skinks (240)
    - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

    Units
    3 x Salamander Hunting Pack
    (330)
    3 x Razordon Hunting Pack (240)

    Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
    Balewind Vortex
    (40)
    Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)

    Total: 1990 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 142

    Edit:Added PJetski list to post
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  10. PJetski
    Cold One

    PJetski Active Member

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    Yup that looks like the list I've been playtesting. Tide of Serpents is really good at taking chunks out of Witches, Skinks, etc. and Control Fate has been really good for improving durability of the 40 Skink blob and sniping down Ironclads and Cauldrons.
     
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  11. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    I like it. I find two units of Guard are needed for the KO match up. One is enough if you win the roll for the RSE, but without that -2 to hit on the Slann/s the extra ablative wounds really shine. Specially if you are on a deployment where you can only drop 12" forward. It becomes a lot harder to zone the KO deepstrikes then.
     
  12. King Gizz
    Jungle Swarm

    King Gizz New Member

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    Hi folks, I recently made the jump from 40k and started a seraphon army, and I’ve roped two other friends to collect Nighthaunt and KO; I can expect to be only playing against them for the forseeable future. As expected, the KO friend is going hard in the paint with them (the zilfin deepstrike), so I gotta bring my A game when we finally finish our armies. I’m really liking what I see in these DT lists, and I’m curious to get some feedback on what a list would look like with 200pts of Saurus Guard. This is what I managed:

    Allegiance: Seraphon
    - Constellation: Dracothion's Tail

    Leaders
    Skink Starseer
    (140)
    - General
    - Command Trait: Nimble
    - Artefact: Godbeast Pendant
    - Spell: Tide of Serpents

    Lord Kroak (320)
    - Spell: Stellar Tempest
    Skink Priest (70)
    Skink Starpriest (120)
    - Spell: Hand of Glory
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)

    Battleline
    10 x Saurus Guard
    (200)
    40 x Skinks (240)
    - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Moonstone Clubs
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

    Units
    3 x Salamander Hunting Pack
    (330)
    2 x Razordon Hunting Pack (160)

    Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
    Balewind Vortex
    (40)
    Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 146

    Would it be better to have the extra razordon back for a loss in skink bodies? Is having the skink blob with spitters and clubs worth the damage output or are bucklers always the better choice?
     
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  13. Putzfrau
    Skink Chief

    Putzfrau Well-Known Member

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    The nice part about seraphon is that the core is so strong a lot of those weedsy details just don't end up mattering as much. Kroak + skinks + salamanders is going to be an oppressively powerful list to deal with regardless of how you fill out the edges.

    With you and one friend going pretty S tier armies (and lists it looks like) i'd just keep your nighthaunt friend in mind lol. His best lists are probably arguably competing with just average seraphon lists.

    Also, AoS 3.0 is rumored this summer which will obviously shake the meta up and probably bring some changes to the top tier lists in some way or another. If you all are just starting, I wouldn't get too fussed with details on the "best" list quite yet ;)

    BUT with all that said, I think the list looks solid. Personally i'm not a huge fan of razordons because other things just do stuff better, and I think 10 guard is excessive in an "all comers" list. I can see it working if one of your primary opponents is KO tho.

    A lot of people like spitters and clubs, i personally do not. I don't feel like seraphon needs any help in the damage department so i'm always of the mind that spitters and shields is better but to each their own.
     
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  14. Jason839
    Troglodon

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    One thing to consider in lists like these is that Kroak is not the broken damage dealing monster people make him out to be. He can dominate the magic phase and can be a good way to kill characters, but he wont be killing units larger than 10 by himself, So you are really relying on the 40 skinks and salamanders heavily. When you lose 1 it hurts badly. You start to struggle to hold objectives and taking objectives becomes all but immpossible. This list has a very harsh dropoff in power. If you can I would recommend the double salamanders. You will really want redundancy and extra punch to get the most out of things before they start dying.
     
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  15. Tyranitar
    Cold One

    Tyranitar Well-Known Member

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    Just curious what's different here that would change Kroak's output? There's still Kroak, balewind, astrolith, and geminids in the list. I'm looking to run some similar DT lists soon so insight will be helpful, thanks
     
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  16. Jason839
    Troglodon

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    Nothings changed really. Ive always found his output to be far less impactful than people claim. He needs true los to targets to do his spell( if you play on tables with los blocking terrain as you should this is a big deal) and then you have to cast 3 times which fail/get dispelled sometimes, and then you have to roll a 2+ to get affected by his spell which also fails sometimes. And then when it does resolve its d3 mortals most of the time, so units only take 1-2 mortals per unit per cast usually. Comets call is a bit better as you often get the d6 units version, but still its only d3 mortals per unit.

    I take kroak because he has a good save, a dpr save, he can cast 4 spells so he can give up one for summoning points without much problem, generates 3 cp a turn potentially, and still has comets call spell. Celestial deliverance+ balewind is nice, as mortal wounds add up over time, but its not as impactful as it sounds based on people's complaints online.

    Anyways not to get too off track, like I said I dont believe kroak should be counted on to do a lot of damage over the game, so you rely really heavily on salamanders and your 40 skink blob if you go that route. losing them hurts a lot so be careful.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  17. Tyranitar
    Cold One

    Tyranitar Well-Known Member

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    Ah ok, that makes sense
     

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